What games would you like to see considered for Evo2k6?

Evo Championship Series
181

And a scene that is just the top players running around collecting everyone’s entry fees and throwing that “i’m a good player, you all are nothing without me” line is just a coup waiting to happen.

Having a competition assumes everyone can actually compete, that is the problem here. Going from a game that everyone can play (xbox #R), to a game that is the same game that everyone can play, just in a different version (ps2 #R) is still decent. Going then to a version that has far less access, exposure, and competition is not a good move overall.

So let me get your argument right, on April 1st 2006, since slash isn’t out on console, all the #R players are hardcore dedicated GG players that work hard and support the scene. As of May 1st 2006 (allowing time for the game to come out and ship and all), #R is a casual game that turns off everyone good at GG and is a scrub tournament.

The entire scene has 2-3 months to find import versions of the game, figure out wtf is going on, and completely change over to the new version, or they are casual players that don’t matter, when as of April, they were fine. Is that accurate? What if the first wave of the game is sold out? What if it doesn’t match the japanese arcade version and the players reject it? There are way too many things that affect way too many players that noone has answered to.

To be honest when games like GG and marvel got play, some SF players threw the same type of complaints, so it’s kind of weird that GG players are now buying into that same bullshit. Had people bought into that the first time around, GG wouldn’t even be in the discussion.

Being inclusive does not mean being casual, recognizing that there is a situation that may affect a lot of players is not ‘focusing on casual instead of competitive’, it’s being responsible to the players, all of them.

182

Part of the draw of Evolution to me is the fact that I am playing the best version of the game available at any time against the best. I know that I have to spend alot of money, time and energy to travel to Evolution each year just to compete, and I’m proud of what I can accomplish there each year when I hang out with my friends and have fun.

Evolution fucked over the GG community once with holding an XX tournament when there was #R available, simply because they didn’t want to get Japanese PS2’s. The same argument was put against us then… “Well people have to import it, it will lower numbers to have a newer, harder to get version!”. However, now you’re catering to casual players and outcasting the tournament level players, who put the most amount of time into the game in the first place.

It’s also fairly obvious you have -no- idea what you’re talking about when it comes to what game is competitive, and what is not. Even bringing Isuka’s sales into this argument is laughable, and using it to “gauge” the community is like why we don’t buy the Alpha 3 re-releases every year from Capcom; because it’s the same game with such minor tweaks, nobody cares.

If you want to continue with this “bring more player, less top player” mentality, feel free. However, when you realize that 50% of the top players who drive this tournament aren’t showing up, and you get such exciting matches as “average joe vs. top japanese player” on your DVD, that helps fund EVO, who’s going to buy that?

Infact, let’s go out on a limb here. What happened if Capcom re-released a new version of CFJ… CFJ2. It was only available in Japan on consoles and arcades, and it was considered the #1 most popular game ever and it was just the most perfect fighitng game created… I guarentee you that EVO would hold it without even a QUESTION of how difficult it was to aquire, or what mods you had to buy just to hold it.

I honestly see no point in attending a tournament that can’t even cater to the league of players it was originally created for; the competitive community. Please, if you’re going to comment on a community, atleast play a game at the highest level and look at it from OUR shoes.

YES. That’s a huge problem. IT’S A CASUAL TOURNAMENT. Hey, let’s put Third Strike in BYOC and hold a Double Impact as the main game! Wouldn’t that bring the numbers in?

183

love the av kugler.

184

Thanks kugler.

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Any competitive scene needs names. Only haters trip on this. Ali/Tyson types talking their shit is what made their eras entertaining which garnered duckets for the promoters. You’re a fool to think SF is anything without its’ own stars. Whether you realize it or not, the scene is suffering by not having established US champs. That’s another discussion but, from what I’m hearing, we wouldn’t see eye to eye on what street fighter is all about.

I’m not arguing with you. I just think that your view will lead to a watered down scene. Focus on the best, everyone already does. The more serious the event is the more drawn in the casual player becomes eventually making them hardcore.

Cater to the best players because they are on the cutting edge.

Even more frankly, the presentation of Evolution should be decided by the producers. The tournaments and rules should be determined by the hardcore veterans NOT average players.

When it comes to the tournaments specifically you should be focusing on the tournaments. Without integrity in the competition it all falls apart.

Being inclusive is pointless if the tournament is lame and gets no respect. You’re worried about bringing more people in but not the tournaments themselves in my opinion. That’s just too soft a focus for a competitive scene.

Elaborate?

186

Any argument that is based on ‘your favoring casual players over top players’ is silly and barely worth responding to anymore. It totally ruins the argument, everytime someone doesn’t like something they call for the death of the scene, it’s like the ‘nazi’ of SF arguments. When MvC2 was put on DC the scene was dying, when CFE wasn’t put in evo the scene was dying, etc… sometimes it’s a good move, sometimes its not so good, but it’s not to keep anyone from coming.

Next, I don’t know if people realize this, but a lot of screwjobs happen when ‘top players’ are in control too. A lot of times it works out, and sometimes they just decide that your series isn’t good enough or that they don’t like you. Then you go play on busted controls and watch everyone tie in games you don’t play for the prize money.

I’m sure the grass appears greener on the other side, just let <insert group that is getting jocked this week> to do everything, but if things were that simple, they would be doing it already and there would be 20 evos,20 eccs,20 mwcs, instead of one each.

Just because someone is good at a game doesn’t mean they should have free reign, should shaq make all the rules for the nba? “Oh look, another defensive foul, shaq to the line… oh wait, no more free throws either, centers just get 2 free points, heat win again omgomgomg”.

Also where does it end, does the toppest player overrule the next to toppest player? if 20 japanese people call and say to cancel GG altogether and run VF is that fair? it’ll be a kickass dvd, and all the best players would be there playing the best game… sound good?

The point is that any group can get out of hand, so just like everyone challenges the decisions made at a tourney, these ideas should be challenged as well.

The team tourney thing didn’t come from me anyway, one of your posters suggested it.

And it’s not like i made up the situation, GG was not at ECC at all for a few days, people are half wishing slash would just get pushed back till the tourney off season, and are figuring out wtf to do themselves. In the end everyone believes that things will get worked out and we’ll get past it, but to say that everything is crystal clear and planned out is not accurate IMO. So i’d rather get everything out in january and see what the field looks like rather than getting to june and noone is sure what the deal is.

I do see your point wrt CFE2 and a couple other things, so we’ll see what happens over the next few weeks

187

I only meant that players should determine the tourney format like 2 out of 3 games…etc. Meaning, players would know what would show a clearly defined winner more than anyone. Of course there are limits but I mean, their input should be highly considered.

My philosophy is more like this. Players that pay to attend should get the tournament that they want. The organizers should organize that. If word got around that Evolution was a community fueled event, literally, I think more people would attend and add input just because they felt they had a say and felt more a part of the community.

Basically, if the important players want Slash it should be given to them. It’s a popular game that will be played for awhile and it only helps Evolution in the long run to have the support of the top players.
Worrying about the casual GG players helps no one and everyone is left unsatisfied.

188

Arguments about accessibility and stuff are stupid. If a guy isn’t going to take the time and money to acquire a Japanese/modded PS2/hard drive and import/download/whatever Slash, I don’t see why you should expect him to spend hundreds of dollars to travel to and enter a video game tournament. That’s like expecting people who won’t buy Gamecubes to enter a Smash tourney.

It isn’t about who’s being catered to, because in reality, not having Slash when it is a possibility isn’t catering to any players. If Slash doesn’t get released in time or if the port plain sucks, that’s a different story. That’s a variable right now that’s up in the air, so it’s probably a smart move to not make any promises about Slash right now… but really is it unfair to ask that the Evo organizers not count it out so early?

Honestly, there seems to be a lot of ignorance about the GG scene from people who aren’t active in that scene, and that’s understandable, but some of the assumptions being made about the scene aren’t entirely accurate.
X-Box #R just isn’t the standard. It has nothing to do with accuracy of the port. Are y’all playing CvS2 on DCs at Evo? Probably not, and I have to wonder when the last time CvS2 was played on DCs in tournaments on a widespread basis. Nobody told CvS2 players to buy Dreamcasts + converters/new sticks + copies of CvS2 even though it was a perfectly viable option, hell it was a cheaper option in most cases and certainly more convenient for organizers since they could just swap discs and play Marvel or CvS2 on the same machine, provided no blue box issues came up.
Would anybody blame CvS2 players for preferring PS2 over DC because of their equipment issues (like not having good converters, etc.)? So why are #R players unreasonable in asking for the version they prefer, and why is it unreasonable to ask for Slash at Evo, when there are viable ways to make it happen that aren’t even very expensive in the long run?
I mean it’s not like anybody is asking the Evo organizers to bring cabinets for Slash or anything. How hard is it to find Japanese/modded PS2s and import the game or hell even get the Japanese to bring some copies if that makes you feel any better?
Just saying that there isn’t really anything unreasonable about the GG scene’s request.

So yes, it’d probably be best to see what happens before rock throwing continues.

189

Just a suggestion. How bout a wrestling video game at Evo? I don’t know which wrestling games are good right now but there are a ton of them out there for PS2/xbox. It’d be great for the crowds to watch. =)

190

Quoting for truth.

191

I kind of agree with the GG players here. Casual gamers (i.e.; 95% of those who play fighting games) don’t come to Evo; heck, they don’t even know what it is. Anyone who takes the time invest in a plane ticket and hotel room in Las Vegas knows what their getting into well before getting there. Evo was created for competitive fighting game players; as soon as we lose sight of that, the whole thing becomes just another convention. The goal shouldn’t be, “let’s find ways to get more casual players to enter.” It should be, “how can we get more casual players to become competitive fighting game players.” Now I know some decisions will always bring forth the haters, but this one will just not work as intended.

Someone mentioned that Tekken players wouldn’t want a lesser version at Evo either, and I agree. As a Tekken player, I can tell you that it would really suck to have to play broken 5.0 again when everyone’s been playing DR and/or 5.1 for months; the community is already split in 2 (if slightly lopsided) factions. Would I import DR if it was on jp console? I sure would. And every competitive Tekken player (read: the community) would as well. Now if no console version comes out, I guess we’ll have to deal with that, but otherwise, I don’t see the point.

I think you’ll find this opinion not coming from just “top players”, but from the overall scene.

192

Yes. There really shouldn’t be an issue.

193

I just read my post again and I thought I’d clarify some things.

This argument actually sounds kind of similiar to the console vs. arcade at Evo debate that went on a few years back. It differs however, in a key way. One, this was a console players vs arcade players argument. The community was split with a good number of players on each side. Evo’s directors backed console, so that side won. As stale as US fighting games have been lately, I don’t think you’ll see many at all sticking with something can be replaced by a superior version.

We all can agree that we need a steady influx of casual gamers into the community to keep the scene alive and growing, but there’s a right way and a wrong way to do this. A good BYOC area for example, and the Evo dvd are two great ways to bring people to Evo. Showing the Street Fighter movie, or having extra stuff to do in general is another great way. Generally speaking, thinking of reasons why people would come to Evo and not play in actual the tourney are all postive. If we want to attract casual gamers, that’s what we should be looking at. Assuming casual gamers will want to compete IMO, is not realitsic.

194

Fixed for you. Not necessarily for you personally, but for the entire community as a whole, one of the major problems with it.

</offtopic>

I still say CvS2 side team tourney would be bomb, even if its just exhibition and not on the big screen.

195

Do you honestly think you would gain more people by using reload than slash? Basically, if and when players get thier hands on slash, from that point onwards, there will be no more reload for them. It is not quite as similar to reload as you may think, when that game came out, many had doubts as to if it was better, we all joked around with it. When you play this game, it completely blows reload away. The changes feel like butter, the new matchups feel like they should have been there for years. After less than a month of playing the game, reload was dead for me. After a whole month of playing, I had compeletly switched my mindset from reload to slash playing one of the most changed characters in the game. If you put this out as reload, even in the argument of casual players will arrive, do you think you will hold consistent numbers? Isn`t that a giantic risk? I guess nomatter what this game will cause a scism in evo numbers, but is evo the life support of every fighting game scene?

On a side note, I really dont care who the best is, I really travel to evo to have fun with my friends. And if the main event was the team tournament, that would be enjoyable. I really didnt think there were many people in the guilty gear scene who would favor singles. I guess I may be wrong.

196

Even if I haven’t touched Slash at all by the time Evo comes around I would still rather play Slash than #R.
Also arguments about casual gamers is dumb because they’d probably rather play a fancy new game anyhow.

Also this whole argument is probably moot because chances are the Evo staff will be reasonable and have Slash as the game provided the equipment (PS2s and copies of Slash) is in place and people sign up for it.

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I believe MrWiz stated something quite similar to that in another thread.

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A3(PS2 cade port soon)
KOF11

and the usally!

199

Lack of skill, ha ha your funny guy. Say that to someone real good at smash, then play them and get your ass handed to you. Although I don’t care for the game much myself, your statement is far from the truth and the game has a solid amount of depth for it’s style of gameplay.

200

Lack of skill, ha ha your funny guy. Say that to someone real good at smash, then play them and get your ass handed to you. Although I don’t care for the game much myself, your statement is far from the truth and the game has a solid amount of depth for it’s style of gameplay.