What does Bison need for Version 2013/14?

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
301

I meant charge partitioning as the way it was in 3rd strike, I don’t know if there are other meanings. It’s not the same as charge buffering, if that’s what you meant. For those unfamiliar, charge partitioning in 3rd strike was a mechanic that allowed you to “sum” the charge frames from two different periods of time (if they happened close to each other). If, for example, you have to charge 60 frames for a special move, instead of charging 60 frames altogether, you could charge 30 frames, interrupt by slightly walking forward or dashing, and then charge the remaining 30 frames. However if you *already *have a charge, you lose it immediately if you interrupt it.

It may sound complicated to do in a real match, and that’s because it is, but that’s where the player’s skill really shows: when you watch RX or Kuroda playing Urien, they do things that seem impossible, making Urien look like a non-charge character. For example, if CP was in SF4, Bison could jump, and as soon as he lands, do an headstomp. Or even jump, dash forward, headstomp. It seems impossible at first, however the trick is where to hide the first part of the charge.

It looks really cool, as it shows how incredibly technical charge characters were in that game, and skill made up almost completely for the deficencies of the character.

As for Bison, it would add a whole new arsenal of tricks, for example you could walk forward, poke with st.mk, dash forward/backwards and immediately after scissor kick/whatever charge move. In general, he would be able to move way more freely, and he wouldn’t be forced to hold back the entire 2 seconds for a charge, making it very obvious for the opponent to know when he could attack.

302

Interesting you seem to mean that the game had limited memory of charge and allowed at least some limited forward movement with needing to buffer it into a dash?

303

Duale,

I understand what you mean now. Actually that would be a good method, especially for charge characters. Although it would make Guile godlike, no?

304

Not sure if I understand correctly what you mean, but you could charge normally like in SF4, as in wait the whole 2 secs (or more) and then press forward + atk. However in that case you cannot interrupt it and still mantain the charge after the pause.
Instead, if the charge didn’t fill up completely, you can stop charging for a few frames, and when you get back to charging after the pause, the new charging frames are added to the previous ones.
There are plenty of tutorials on YT regarding CP anyway, if you’re interested.

@exogen

Yes… Well, all charge characters for that matter. That’s why it would probably require a whole new rebalance, but it would still be a cool idea imo.

305

That mechanic was required in a game with parries, otherwise charge characters would’ve been totally gimp.

Would’ve been nice in this game though.

306

The only thing he needs is the psycho vanish from Capcom vs SNK 2. Make it so that he can only 2n1 with light and medium version of the move and the hard version reflects the fireball back with a tad longer startup frames. Also add at least 5 to 7 invincibility frames to the warp.

307

I started playing Bipson since super back in 2010 and the changes they made to him were pretty much a catch 22. Bison’s main issue is his horrible AA game along with low damaging combos and having to guess everything to damage. I’m generally around a 3.3K Bison player and from my experience his character design doesn’t really make much sense. He’s detailed as an space control character with some of the best corner pressure in the game. However, even his corner pressure is tricky due to the fact that you have to try and guess if your opponent is going to do a DP, sweep, or jump back RH. Since Bison also relies heavily on punishes players tend to whiff DPs which have a ridiculous amount of active frames and then follow it up with another DP because they know you’re going to try and punish it. Basically it makes difficult to try and counter certain whiffed moves and even if you do get the punish the damage is low.

Bison just needs a consistent AA option. His cr.HP has awful startup frames and I rarely use it. If I do use it, it’s usually as a finisher or against Gief.

St.RH is decent but has no priority so it often trades or loses. Inconsistent.

St.HP is just…

St.MK could use a better vertical hitbox, characters like DJ can sweep it even though the move is still active

SD is useless

DR is only used for meter building really. EX DR is decent as a finisher (chip, opponent tries to focus)

PC is only useful if your opponent is always neutral jumping or for crossing up. no complaints about EX PC, it’s really good how it is now, except for no throw invincibility

SK - lk SK could use a damage buff considering it’s the only reliable move bison has. I saw some people talking about Mk SK, I rarely use the move unless I know my opponent can’t punish it (toe hit). Hk SK is a good long range punish but still doesn’t do a high amount of damage.

HS at high level is useless at range, everybody knows it’s coming. slow moving with terrible tracking make it easy for characters to fireball and AA, you also have to guess when using it. ex. Sagat tiger shots - Bison tries HS - TIGER APRICOT!! EX HS is a little better but tracking is still poop.

Overall, my experience with Bison is a frustrating love/hate scenario. On one hand I love being offensive and getting explicit text messages from online players. But at the same time I have to work so much harder than other players (even vega has a better mixup game…) it’s just too difficult to win consistently due to low damaging combos and having to take massive risks to try and punish since none of his moves have startup invincibility. Asking for damage and a consistent AA is nothing compared to the tools cammy, E honda, Adon, Seth, Ryu, etc. have. Even characters like Rufus are hard to shake off because of consistent crossup dive kick pressure followed by EX messiah which has 3 variations and is cancellable. Bison’s damage is always something I’ve complained about and people just tell me “He’s so safe scissor kicks r sew EZ” yet they’ve never played as Bison before.

Basically Bison is shut down once his tick throw setups fail, he gets punished for trying to dash in cr.lk/cr.lp and his opponent has good jump ins followed by a invincible DP which can be canceled into a high damage ultra.

Bison’s ultras are also relatively useless.

BISON NEEDS MORE DAMAGE AND AN AA!!

308

I agree on psycho vanish, I just don’t think they have the resources to make new animations. Regarding the warp, I think that adding 5-7 frames of invincibility on it would only make it frustrating to punish. The problem with that move is not the lack of invincibility imo, but the fact that it’s easily reactable by good players. I’d rather lower its recovery, so it’s harder to react to it. That or make it travel farther from the opponent.

309

posted in wrong thread but:

310

Sorry but I can’t agree on this. If you’re a good player, then none of this should be a concern to you at all. I’m not saying I am (far from it!), but these complaints are pretty much nullified with proper training and skill.

If you get caught by a sweep, it means you’re doing something wrong. If you get neutral jumped out of scissor kick, it means you didn’t react to what the opponent did, you just threw it out randomly. If you get caught by a dp, it means the opponent took a HUGE risk, since Bison can pressure outside the dp range just fine. If you can’t punish a dp… well, sorry, but it’s your fault, not Bison’s.

Even though I agree his corner game is not phenomenal like Fei’s, he still can capitalize on it very well. He doesn’t have problems when the opponent tries to escape, because that’s actually how Bison gets his damage. His problems are, as you said, when the opponent can react to your tick throw setups, and that’s why I think he needs an overhead.

About the damage, absolutely. He has to guess right soooo much more than the opponent to win. Personally, I wouldn’t just increase his damage overall, I would try to make it more fun for Bison players. Buff his damage off of FADCs, he is the only character that has to link 2-3 light attacks after an fadc. Make new combos possible, or at least increase the damage on cl.lp / st.lk, as well as the first hit on SK.

311

I agree with the damage situation with Bison. His damage is very low, especially after a FADC. Lots of meter wasted for shit damaging combo. Buff his damage!

His AA options arent great but they arent horrible either. You just have to know your matchups better.

312

Capcom seems ok with recycling stuff from other games. They don’t need a new animation, they only need to take Bison cross art in SFXT and modify it a little bit and they are golden.

313

^ Oh crap you’re right, I didn’t think of it!
Damn, I wish they did that. Not only for the sake of balance, but also to make the game feel “new” again.

314

In regards to the corner thing, what cobraVirus is saying is fairly accurate. Trust me, I’m good with Bison, but the situation is that on a knockdown, your opponent is either going to DP, jump (forward back or neutral), or use some normal. If you go for SK on wakeup, you punish their jump, but lose if they DP. If you try to play it “safe” and SK late, if they jump your punished because they get huge combo, or they just get out of the corner. Maybe you go S.hk instead, but if they sweep you get knocked down. If you throw c.lk/mk/mp, you catch them depending on what they do, but of course can get DP’d. The problem is that if bison guesses right, he looses big damage, whereas, if he guesses right, he gets piddles. The corner is actually in the enemies favor to a great degree. The only thing that makes it in Bison’s favor is that if he knocks them down, they can repeat. But again, if he guesses right he looses everything.

Its disproportional.

315

Not every character has a dp though. For characters with a dp, you shouldn’t be right on top of them, you should be sitting at a distance where most of their stuff will whiff, but still within your reach.

316

Generally how I play it. Though outside of the corner I like using MP crusher with the timing of crossup crusher can make DP mash go the wrong way and they get hit or whiff. Nice to use on occasion, dangerous though if they actually block.

Well on knockdown anyways

317

@m16ghost
Exactly what I’m saying. It’s all about spacing: if the opponent chooses to dp when Bison is not in range, he’s taking a gigantic risk, because he can only hit you in the exact same moment you’re attacking. You can choose to delay your attack, or walk back a little, and that’s dangerous for the opponent.

Personally I only use SK when I cancel a normal into it. I never do it randomly, it’s too risky for me. When the opponent is cornered, I usually walk back and see what they do, and then whiff punish with a cr.mk -> sk, which is safest way to apply pressure. If I see that the opponent has learned not to do anything, I walk up and grab or go for a tick throw.

318

I came back to playing Bison after a while trying to learn Fei, and yes, he needs an antiair. It just makes no sense, I thought it was because he had good horizontal control, but then again what about Fei? He has an even better horizontal and poking game than Bison, plus a good reversal and AA. I just can’t seem to find something Bison has that Fei doesn’t, even theoretically speaking. Oh right, he has an headstomp /facepalm

(sorry for double post)

319

I won’t say Bison needs these. This is what I want and believe won’t make Bison OP.
-faster cr.HP
-something that can be comboed into from cr.LK and guarantees an U1 when the opponent is in the corner(like Guy’s U1)*
-better tracking on Head Stomp; EX version better tracking, faster and lower arc**

*On Capcommunity I suggested this move be his Psycho Strike from CvS1(the double punch attack that became his alpha counter in CvS2) but if Capcom is going to be squeezing pennies then maybe they could instead re-tool EX Knee Press for comboing into U1 in the corner. Turn it into two consecutive short Knee Presses(his super without the slide) with the last one launching the opponent just high enough for a U1 to connect if a corner is right behind them.

**To replace EX Knee Press losing its anti-projectile utility, EX Headstomp would be given properties to make it similar to how it sometimes works in ST.
In the match at 1:40, the Bison player displays Head Stomp how I’d like the EX version to work in USF4(plus untechable knockdown).

320

A) stop complaining
B) don’t blame the character. you’re doing something wrong to put yourself in the position where you’re being beaten by air attacks
C) if you dislike Bison so much, stick with Fei long.