Give him a fireball, a DP, and buff the damage on his far.hk to 200
/Serious Fighter 4 AE2013
I’d rather be Bison than Vega against a smart person who jumps a lot.
having subbed vega quite seriously until AE dropped (nerfing his cosmic heel), then continuing to dabble with him just to stay up to date, i disagree with that sentiment
vega has some seriously good anti air abilities. he frustrates you on the ground and gets you to jump at him where you knocks you back down
nj.rh is probably the best air-to-air in the game, is scarlet terror has no invuln but has a damn good hitbox, even better with EXST, jb.strong/fierce are also amazing options. cr.fierce is actually decent for people who are trying to jump in at a distance and s.rh is pretty darn good too. and lets not forget the most underutilized move in this game, air throw (seriously, air throws are borderline broken imo)
vega is only really vulnerable to jump ins when the opponent is way too close and the vega player has slow reactions or when he’s been knocked down… but vega is so good at not being knocked down it doesn’t happen often. this is why divekickers are vega’s worst match up - they change their angle too much or they spam too close for vega to do anything about it
bison has 4 options max. s.rh which is good, but if it fails that means you have to start using c.fierce. c.fierce is pretty decent but in some match ups it’s just not fast enough. nj.rh and nj.mk are underutilized by every bison i’ve watched and they are also amazing when you react with them. those 4 options while decent do not in my opinion stack up against vega’s 7-8 options.
basically bison’s options lose to the same things vega’s does except bison has less angles to work with than vega does
You know I do find it annoying how you can just be harassed endlessly and dive kicked to death. But I still think he needs a way better offense to offset his shitty defense. I just think with a solid AA to stop that it might make him to strong. But even if not, I just don’t know how it flows with the character.
Yeah when your most reliable anti air is a normal it sucks that the dive kicks have more priority over it. Frustrating how the dive kicks just beat my roundhouse unless it’s almost perfectly timed
But seriously, they should reduce the startup on his cr.hp to like 6-7 frames, so you know, we can actually land a fucking anti air on reaction. Bison is probably the free-est to jump ins in the whole cast. Also the whole divekick thing, I think you can do headstomp if they get too predictable and it will beat the divekick… Im not sure though.
I feel like his pressure game needs no changes, neither do his poke normals (st.mk and st.hk specifically) but at least a somewhat decent anti air would be really really nice. As much as Bison can dish out pressure, he is just about as free to it as well as long as you dont have meter and good reads.
If you headstomp as a reaction, you will miss and get punished because the divekick can turn into a OS or. simply off the recovery they can walk under your headstomp. Divekicks aren’t something you want to try and predict with a headstomp… sounds great on paper, but in a serious match, that’s the last thing in your mind… plus it is MAD risky. Remember, they can CHOOSE when to divekick, and if it were a smart player, they would be well aware of the headstomp (keyword is smart, lol).
All you need to do is Neutral J. RH if the opponent is in range and jumps, because you can choose when to activate the RH in the air just depends on what the opponent does.
Besides even if Cr. Fierce turns into an actual AA, it still wouldn’t do anything against divekicks because every character that has a good Cr. Fierce would have to time a divekick probably regardless. It isn’t just Bison. But his Cr. Fierce is in dire need of a buff, that’s for sure.
Sakura would like a word with you 
But seriously, there is an OS to beat Rufus’s divekick/throw game which is only possible because of her fucking derpy 3 frame cr.hp with shoryuken-like hitbox/hurtboxes lol
… What? Her Cr.Fierce is 4 frames not 3. Also Bison’s standing short can stop the instant divekick pressure. That is the only move standing that is 4 frame startup. So yes Bison can eliminate that issue.
But as I mentioned earlier, as a divekick I meant someone can delay it. So unless you have good reactions you will end up throwing it out there, IF you decide to punish their possible jump-in. It’s active for 5 frames (which is pretty good), but it still won’t last long. I’m not saying it CANNOT be done, but under pressure you can mess up. I’m being realistic.
Bison just seems like such a poorly CONCEIVED character. It’s just hard to get my mind around how bad this character is in so many areas. So many of Bison’s deficiencies are in things that have no explicit categories and are easy to overlook. And questions like why the fuck does Ryu have five (FIVE!!!) consistent ways to combo into his ultra when Bison has zero are constant annoyances.
Just noted these things down after an endless scrimmage against a 4200 PP ryu.
horrible meter management (some characters never need to use meter and they’re perfectly fine, offensively and defensively. So they sit on meter until the match gets close or near the end of the round, and they’ve got a huge advantage)
Bison’s game seems almost tailored fucking made to eat neutral jump damage, and on occasions when it’s a perfectly logical and smart to advance (dashing or scissor kicking on a crouching character that randomly decides to jump is absolutely devastating)
absolute shit come back ability (and not only that, when the match is on the line and it’s very close, Bison is usually the one that has to take all the crazy risks to win the match)
shit air to air
absolute shut down of the dash game if opponents knows to throw out cr. jab on reaction (played a Dudley the other day who completely shut down my dash game with this simple tactic)
Crouching hard punch - the problem with this move isn’t that its completely useless now, it’s that no one has enough confidence in it to ever use it against a good player. Sure, anyone can use it in the training room, but when you’re down or about to lose would anyone in their right mind even think to use this move? The size of the punish on this move is enough where no one below 50% health would even dream of using it, unless you’re an idiot. This risk is just too great.
shit stun – the amount of shit you’ve got to pull of to get a stun is fucking mind-bogging. Countless times I’ve taken 70-80% of my opponent’s health 15-17 seconds into the match and nothing.
no overhead – WHY The number of characters in this game that have an overhead and don’t fucking need it boggles my mind, and yet Bison doesn’t have this.
several absolutely useless or limited usefulness moves (EX scissors, cr. HP, hell attack, etc)
No gimmicky or free moves good for a certain amount of default damage. There are moves in this game that happen so fast or are so tricky it’s a given you’re going to get hit with one. Chun-li’s flip move. Vega’s extremely fast wall horizontal wall flying move. Oni’s cross up move. Akuma’s demon flip grab. Bison has nothing like this.
It’s so silly when people talk about how great bison’s pokes are when characters like Ryu have FEWER pokes, but the one they do have is very functional and leads to combos with incredible damage (cr. mk, to red fireball, FADC, to ultra). I mean who faces a Ryu and thinks, “Oh good, I’m going to poke him to death.” Ryu’s who are good at throwing out lots of cr. mk and understand the move will hit you a fair amount of times with it, as opposed to those who are afraid to use it.
And to think they actually nerfed Bison’s damage in the last update… Whoever was responsible for that decision can only be called an idiot.
The sole concept of “charge” character is what makes him badly conceived imo. Why did they even make charge moves in the first place? The movement limitations of constantly having to hold back were balanced by moves that move you forward and have good priority, but they also cause a shit ton of other mobility problems. I mean, even other charge characters have special moves that could be done by moving forward (lightning legs, hand slaps, Balrog’s TAP, Blanka’s electricity, even Vega can charge-confirm off of a cr.mk).
What does Bison have? He’s the most charge dependant character in the game, and that alone is one of the most exploitable weakness in the game.
I don’t get it, how is this a weakness? Every character has a dash, so that means every character has this weakness? Or do other characters have a way to avoid it, that Bison doesn’t?
Also, regarding neutral jumps. You can react to them and punish if you’re fast, it’s not like he’s helpless against them.
Maybe you just want to see weaknesses in the character, when in fact it’s just you being predictable with dashes and sks… Just saying…
I personally don’t see all those weaknesses in Bison, apart from being a charge character and the implications it brings. He’s solid overall, he’s just not that good. If you don’t like the character and see him as a total disgrace, nobody is forcing you to use him.
@The Beautiful One
Honestly for the past couple weeks man all I see from your posts on the Bison forums is nothing but complaints, like get the fuck over it. As Duaie said no one is forcing you to use him, so just pick someone else or go play another fighter. Also, I’m sure people who want to know certain things about him do not want to read eveything that you’re putting down as if it was fact. He’s a solid character regardless of what you say, you just aren’t using him right, period.
First off, why the fuck are you scissor kicking as a way to move in? And random neutral jumping… really? He has three moves that go horizontally and two that go vertically. If you’re dashing in, then they were probably expecting a random scissor kick, which in this case they got a free punish regardless. Also what the hell are you on? Useless moves? Hell Attack alone is a sick air to air jumping back, especially when people mess up their timing on a jump in and you can hit them very quickly with it. Like I can’t understand how you are having a hard time with him. He’s actually really basic if anything. Solely because as you said, he doesn’t have an overhead or some gimmicky move, that pretty much makes him simple ass character doncha think?
Just stop posting negative shit, because you clearly aren’t helping the Bison community on SRK with you random rants. At this point anything you say about Bison as a whole is not valid as a statement or an argumentative point, you clearly do not know shit about how to use the character right.
Btw, horrible meter management comes from the player not the character, like that is dumbest thing you’ve just said and that pretty much sums up my patience on your idiocy.
Blow me, asshole. If my posts cause you so much sand in your vagina, here’s a brilliant idea… don’t read them. And you’re calling ME the idiot?
Well I guess you’re just fucking awesome!
Your lack of valid arguments is astonishing.
Anyway, I only said to not confuse the character weakness with the player’s weakness. If you suck at anti-airing, it does not necessarely mean the character has bad anti-airs, don’t you think?
Again, if you hate the character so much, why are you still here? Shouldn’t you be in the Cammy sections praying not to get your character nerfed?
Hey, I’ve made my argument, but apparently, you’ve become one with objective truth. You’ve reached the mountaintop and you’ve dispensed divine incontrovertible wisdom from on high. Wasn’t that the point of your post? So hey, I just confirmed the fucking awesomeness taking place to the right of your avatar.
I’m not griping about anything that I haven’t heard mentioned often, by very accomplished players. And if you want to get on your high horse and imply that anyone who says Bison needs an overhead or other improved options is an ignorant asshole who sucks at the game, so be it. Again, clearly you’re a very special caliber of player and just an all around very special guy.
I’d switch characters in a heartbeat if it didn’t mean starting from scratch. As has been discussed here often, Bison’s deficiencies become clearer the longer you play. I’m waiting to see if Bison is given meaningful buffs. And frankly, I’ve got a life to lead, so whether Bison is a more viable character if someone decides to spend what I consider to be unjustifiable amounts of time playing/studying SSF4 is something I’ll never know. I gave my opinion based on my personal observations, and the relative effectiveness I’ve noticed with other characters after spending much much less time learning them.
Finally, I’ve heard tons of Bison players talk shit about how great he is. And then I invite them into an endless match against great players who know the matchup, and they get absolutely shut down. So I take all general assessments here, outside of proven players with observable results with a grain of salt. Newsflash: people tend to talk a big game.
“Well I guess you’re just fucking awesome!” and “Blow me, asshole. If my posts cause you so much sand in your vagina, here’s a brilliant idea… don’t read them. And you’re calling ME the idiot?” are valid points? What?
And I wasn’t on my high horse or anything, nor saying you suck at the game. I’m just saying, if you keep dashing forward against an opponent expecting it, it’s NOT Bison’s fault, it’s YOUR fault. And this does not imply I’m better than you, you insecure fuck.
Horrible meter management is an argument for Bison being bad? Anybody will tell you that you talking out your ass… go to any thread and show them what you said. Infact get ahold of any top players if you would like and they will tell you what is wrong with not just this argument, but much more of what you are saying.
Really? No, he is just correcting, as I, you from the false sacks of shit you call disadvantages of Bison. Why don’t you tell me, what these great players (you play online) think about the matchup between the characters they use versus (a good) Bison? Infact why don’t you do some research on other forums and look through what top Bison players do. You say you put a lot of effort into this character and that it’s too late to start from scratch, which btw is just an excuse for being a bad player (yes NOW I actually think you’re a bad player). The 2013 update is around the corner, you can easily pick up a new character after EVO and stop bitching about characters you can’t use right, lest you want to continue giving yourself an anxiety attack over a video game.
Btw I could care less about readin your posts. But as I said earlier, other people trying to get better with Bison would get confused with you posting your shit information on matchups. I was suprised when you posted almost half the cast in the other thread when in reality, he only has 5 bad matchups. If you are struggling against Ryu, you really need to figure out what’s wrong with what YOU are doing as the player.
So if you wanna keep posting stupid things like the stuff you already have posted… and regurgitate the same “arguements,” that backup your so called reasons why Bison is a very bad character, then once again, just drop him and move on. Aside from that, happy bitchin and stay free as fuck.
Dumbass, in a thread about what Bison needs for the upcoming version, I’m not sure how listing his various limitations is off topic. Sure, I inserted a few expletives in there and made my dissatisfaction known, but deal with it. No need to get butt hurt – you didn’t design the fucking character did you?
And most the majority if not all of what you said is complete bullshit. Post some vids of you beating highly ranked players or shut up.
Really? Do people still use this argument? What are you, five?
I can understand dissatisfaction, but some of the things you said were plain WRONG. I don’t care if you have 6k or 7k PPs, your arguments fall apart just by logic.
And now, please let’s end this here. Let’s keep this thread peaceful.