I like cool stages, they don’t all need to be bland. I mean the same argument could be used for music. Why have it? It isn’t essential to game play. (I do love the music in the other games though).
I like to have a mixture of backgrounds. I like Capcom vs SNK and Capcom vs SNK 2 backgrounds. Many games had some neat backgrounds. Everyone has their preference on this.
The hell is this SF4 music bashing? The stages I can understand to a point, the general goof definitely, but the music? The soundtrack would be one of the last things about SF4 I could be convinced of being bad.
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Who even plays with music on… do you not have the new Marina album? Go listen to that.
I’m not gonna lie, I need good stages and music.
Shit like Killing Moon, Shit like ST Cammy, Vega, and Balrog stages.
There’s a certain atmosphere that’s set when you play a long set with someone, and you’re on a stage, and it kind of brings everything together.
I’m not gonna say I lose because of music or stages (Besides volcano stage, who the fuck at capcom thought that was okay?), but I DO play better on stages I like.
@Vulpes:OR, they could give us good music, I didn’t play my music over MVC2 nor 3S or 2I, the hype was just to…Hype.
When you get on Killing Moon, and you’re like “Aw yeah, let’s do this”.
You can’t get that with your own music.
I’ve actually been playing with music off too myself. I can listen to what I want, even financial talk and stock, lol.
I like good backgrounds and music, of course.
I like some spectator stages, but nothing has the same epic feel as open fields or especially the Volcanic Rim in SF4. There are plenty of good stages that have other shit going on that doesn’t get to KoF levels of ridiculousness.
Vega’s original Spain stage totally kicked ass, complete with falling cage sound effect and music.
Capcom VS SNK 2: along with SF Anniversary Collection, I definitely played it more than any other fighter. Still I will always hate that rotating green China stage. They really shouldn’t draw any inspiration from KoF when it comes to stage design.
It’s kind of weird to see them go the CVS2 route, at least on stage design. Although the British stage/EX Dudley stage/ Cammy story mode stage is decidedly present. Certain character stages are omitted, while characters like blanka and Juri still have their own stage.
This game had a lot of ideas that were scrapped. Abel was going to be female. Character stages were going to stay. At one point, it was going to be a sequel to third strike and ACTUALLY play like the attract demo. I would play the crap out of that. I was pretty hype for sf4 when it was coming out. I think what messes it up for me is 1- it doesn’t feel as “SF” as other SF’s. A lot of cool things don’t work anymore and some old ideas got scrapped. In this game, meaty pressure is pretty rare unless you safejump or os. Rarely will you beat a reversal with a mp like in 3s and shoryus trade. A lot. It’s not far from St in that respect, but there’s a great feeling that comes from using a real shoryu that you don’t get with the ST (and the more common) SF4 Ryu headyuken trades- setting up ultra though is an ok consolation prize. Guile isn’t much of a rusher and feels too-nerfed in some cases. Heck he gets the headyuken effect with flash kick, which is dumb. Jumps shouldn’t beat a special anti air. They should make you afraid to jump.
Vanilla arcade I consider to be the closest to the sf ethos followed by Arcade edition. AE was pure, “unbalanced” (not every matchup was horrible though), competitive capcom play, complete with seemingly unbeatable top tiers. Vanilla didn’t have a ton of characters in the Ac version. It had 16 characters. So hyper fighting’s cast plus four newbies. Every version after fixed some things and introduced new issues- mainly a ton of matchups that characters weren’t necessarily designed for. For example Ryu vs anyone new. Ryu is a lateral pressure character- the space he controls is slightly above him and the horizontal space in front of him. He can’t really control the diagonal space without creative use of his normals or his tatsu, especially vs moves that go too low for the nerfedyuken to hit. In the old days, Ryu could handle anyone. This is still pretty true, especially in the hands of a creative player, but some characters can just utterly outclass him. Take seth for example. Ryu is awesome and can rush down Seth, but if he doesn’t get the jump on it, it’s very, very hard for Ryu to deal with Seth mixups. Viper is another one, and surprisingly, fuerte. They can shut him down. Cool thing about Ryu though is he’s just THAT versatile to where he can handle anyone.
A big issue is there are a lot of “buts” in sf4’s design. You have an sf2 framework BUT you have a psuedo parry. You have SF2 and Sf3 characters BUT your walkspeed is horrible in comparison to ST. You have dashes BUT it takes 2 of them to equal an old school dash. You have chainable light attacks BUT you can’t cancel them without linking. You have 3s ken’s voice actor BUT Ken is more like a severely altered cvs2 ken. You have supers BUT meter builds too slowly for them to be really prevalent outside of specific use with a few characters. You have ex’s like 3s BUT your normals don’t build meter for them, making meter building easiest for characters with oft used specials, like projectiles, Cammy Cannon Strike, or Fuerte run. You have normals that are decent BUT they don’t build (again) any meter unless they connect.
Another thing is the ultra system. In vanilla SF4 with the arcade roster, everyone HAD to set up their ultra, so it balanced things out a little, although some characters took too little risk (Sagat, only needed to use fw hk really.) Ryu and ken had and still have to to DP and fadc, focus, jump in, set up a cross up, or take advantage of a big whiff or some other situation. Zangief’s is/was amazing, but you can jump out and you have to set it up. Akuma’s was/is by far one of the most deadly and is really easy to use. Abel ult 1 had to be combo’d into (unless I’m confusing his ults). Viper has to either get a read or combo into hers. Fuerte could/can just do his pretty much raw (’.’… fuerte you shenanigan of a character) or RSL or focus into it. There were issues, however…
Now we have ults that can be done raw, and easily. Some are neat, like ken’s flaming spin cycle, aka shippu jinrai mach 2 aka Gurren Senpukyaku (fight the powa!) or Vega’s u2 and completely change match dynamics and are really neat, and have a nice trade-off if you miss. Others are just troll ultras. Seth u1 and BOTH of Hakan’s come to mind. You can react to one attack with them and get a HUGE reward, even if you were playing like crap the entire match. Some players do this on purpose- taking damage just to get their troll ult on board and then ko’ing you with it. The way ultra meter is built is also annoying. You get it for being hit. This would be ok if there was only a certain time you can use it etc but it isn’t. It rewards getting hit. That is dumb. A more SF system would be to build it via correct defensive and offensive use focus attacks or have the threshold for use be more strict in terms of how much life you have. Imo they should be specific use at very low life or high life if you have absorbed enough.
Defense is also far too god in some situations and far to little in others. Some players with their characters can just hold down back and you literally can’t do crap to them. A good example is Rufus. Rufus’s crouching palm is really good. It’s hard to jump in on it and it’s hard to beat it. You just kinda have to throw him (easily breakable, yay 2 button throws) attempt a cross up tatsu, or focus, and the attack can actually be quick enough to break focus. There’s no parry so you can’t just do that to it and punish. The lack of parry hurts some matchups. Seth would definitely not be able to do his loops and whatnot in a parry system. At the same time, other characters would benefit too much from such a system. Viper could add parry into her mixups. Seth would become even more deadly. Maybe a gc of some sort.
I think the height of the series in general was right at the beginning and at the beginning of super, with a small falling out and revival in AE. But right now, it seems like the hype is just draining from it. There are a lot of other games- admittedly even better games- out right now, which takes away from the monopoly that this game had.
I agree with these statements, yet there are several scenes in Kung Fu films where there are spectators. Iron Monkey, Legend of Drunken Master, and several others; I will abstain from boring with you with my Kung Fu film knowledge. LOL.
The stages in SF2 were also interactive, instead of being a matte painting behind the action. Vega could climb the fence, you could break objects on several stages.
The few stages in SF4 I like are the Volcanic Rim, The Warrior statues, and Jungle stage on the pier.
They also generalized locations. Instead of the actual country, it’s just Europe, East Asia, etc.
Also, there were spectators in Chun-Li’s, Dudley’s and Remy’s stage on 3s, not to mention Yang when playing Yun on their stage.
I’m all for variety. I like the way there are stages that fit the mood depending on who you play as. Evil Ryu, Akuma, and Oni should always be on one of the deserted stages, while some fit in with the crowd stages. Also the Alpha series had some pretty cool backgrounds.
I’d probably say that Dudley’s is the only 3S stage I don’t like. The others fit in though. SF2 definitely had the most variety of cool stuff going on, or maybe it’s just that there wasn’t TOO MUCH thinking going on. I miss stuff getting broken, and breakthu walls and floors is something I’ve never had a problem with in MK until it turned into a fatality, but then again, those games weren’t supposed to be for anything more than casual and fun play.
trade dp ultra was setting up your ultra?
I like Volcanic Rim, but in the end of the day I guess variety is king. KOF had some neat stages too, give or take, like SF.
KoF’s backgrounds make me wanna puke.
I love KoF, or rather, I used to play it all the time. Between that and “Three” I spent all of my pocket change. For the majority of their stages though, I hated them. Especially the ones with bored people watching. '99 had probably my favorites: the Dinosaur Museum, final boss. It also had the absolute worst, like the Alley and the Estate/College. Also the music blew.
I think they just said ‘fuck it’ because people were still playing '98 in the arcade still.
SF4 doesn’t have the memorable stages of past games but they aren’t completely annoying. The only two I don’t like are the Drive In at Night and the Crumbling Laboratory.
I hate Rufus’s dive kicks. They make it literally into a throw or block guessing game over and over and over and over.
I know a lot of Street Fighter can basically come down to guessing on wake up, but characters like Rufus, Viper and Seth can make it far too much in their favor.
Ibuki is a good example of a character that relies on wakeup pressure, but is still balanced.
Can’t we all just agree that Rufus is a lame ass design?
Oh how ironic, he’s extremely fat and really fast! hyuk
Rufus is incredibly 1-Dimensional. You never have to fight a “Completely Different” Rufus. People really need to just stop complaining about him.
But Y’know, Opinions / Assholes. Personally, I despise how Reversal orientated SF in general is. You constantly have to either adapt your entire playstyle or respect mashed DP’s. Sure you can punish it, but you can’t do any flashy shit.
Ever.
Unless you’re Gen.
No I just meant a shitty design, that’s all. I don’t like looking at him, I don’t like Capcom knowing that they can put something so offensive to behold in their game and still get money for it. I don’t like fat characters with no personality besides being dumb and fat. I don’t need that in my fighters - I own a cat already.
I don’t mind the drive in movie and crumbling lab. I mean they aren’t my favorite level but they don’t bother me. I like when they fight elsewhere besides just normal roads and places. I actually liked some of the backgrounds on alpha 3, and the fact that EVERYONE had their own stage. Even secret characters. Feels like more effort went into it.
I effing love AE2012. It’s my 2nd fav Street Fighter game after the original SF II’ Hyper Fighting. Actually, I would say it’s tied for 2nd fav. with 3s. Still it’s by far and away one of my favourite games, and due to the amount of people playing it, is currently my most played game by a large margin.
Youre dead to me.
things i really hate about sf4 in general? well first off im not going to lie… i LOVE sf4 with a passion. there are however 3 things that i hate so much that one is a complete deal breaker for me whereas the other 2 are just… well annoying:
the deal breaker:
non height restrictive/very low “traditional” divekicks… i see these as completely unbalanced and in fact broken. i wont bother trying to win other folks towards my way of thinking, its just how i feel. in fact its because of divekicks that i stopped playing sf4 in general… i do still play, but its only once in a blue moon and generally i will play and win/get beat till i get beat off the stick by a divekicker and i will just stop. it isnt because i havent tried to beat divekicks, im not being some scrub thats just calling something OP as a knee jerk reaction… ive played against and beaten many divekick players, ive gotten destroyed by them as well, i just dont find fighting against divekicks to be any fun and i just think they are OP. instead of bitching like i would like to do and ruin everyones divekick fun… i just call the game trash and let the divekickers enjoy there overpowered move.
also, as an addendum i consider non traditional air based moves to be divekicks as well… things like adons jaguar kicks, vipers burning kicks… etc etc. basically any aerial move that cant be easily punished on block nor easily AA’d on reaction is a divekick to me… though in general i am less annoyed with the non traditional ones.
the annoying things:
crouchtech in general… nuff said. i crouch tech like a madman… still think its a bogus ass strategy… whatever about frame traps (which i use all day) i just find crouchtech to be very annoying, not a dealbreaker, just annoying.
mashed reversals during blockstrings… also find this rather annoying, not a dealbreaker just something that i think the game would be wholly better without.
those are the 3 things that i dislike about sf4.
if they took those 3 things out of sf4, i honestly think it would be the best streetfighter ever made… well at least in my own opinion.
-dime