What do "OG" 3rd Strikers think of SFV?

[Cipher]

My homegames are ST,KoF98 and CVS2.
Allthough I started with SF back in 2008, after I played some ST on fightcade I begane to hate IV with a passion.
And I learned how the neutralgame works and what footsies is in 98 and a little bit in ST, but mainly 98.

[Tebbo]

that’s nice.

bob basically covered it. except it’s even more varied. we’re all individuals. let’s try not to make things fit some kind of larger narrative or ‘community’.

[evilj]

sfv sucks, it’s too slow, movesets are limited in use, offensive pressure is basically hit/throw until you are stunned/dead and if they block you just do a pointless blockstring or try to tick throw with your pathetic frame advantage until you are pushed back into the HELLISHLY boring neutral game

This is a wrong estimation of the SFV pressure game and neutral. If you play V like that, and its your only approach to pressure you want be getting far. You have to know the range of the pokes of your opponent well and do stuff like a blockstring that leaves you for example minus on block but at a range where your opponent will try and press a good poke they have - but you do a step back and they whiff, because you know your blockstring left you at that specific range. Then you simply go on and whiff punish them. You can space your moves that are minus on block at a range where you’re too far away for them to do a light attack and take their turn- but a mid attack will lose to your light attack even tho frame wise it was “their turn”, cuz you catch them in the startup frames of their mid attack. Alone those two approaches to the neutral will allow you to steamroll anybody with decent knowledge of the game and the frames but not enough about how the footsy game is played in SFV - for example someone like yourself. Then again all of that changes and becomes even deeper once you have too opponents to understand and play the game it is intended to. All of that leaves the good ol’ simple frame trap completely out. If you know they spaced themselves so your mid attack will be run over by their light attack you can simply delay your attack and get a CH combo etc. etc. it’s really not that simple you make it out to be.

Also maybe you will argue well that’s all random and fuck that - well maybe, but a lot of those situations require good reactions, and you need to be able do convert your CH and maybe CC to their full extend, just pressing the combos and hope you get a counterhit in those situations want help you either. And also the same “random” argument goes for the 3s parry. Why the fuck would you dare to punish if you parry for example a c.MK of Ken? he could always let loose his SAIII and punish you for your right read and execution of your parry and attempt to punish of it.

This is on point. It’s amazing that people don’t know this…and it’s somewhat true for older games as well.

I will say that SFV was the game that got me looking at frame data.

[Za_Fuuru]

Frame data is VERY important in SF V, because there is no invincible backdash and many moves are +on block. You have to know which normals and specials are -on block in order to get your turn.

SF IV was more about OS and less about frame data

[orochi_ryu]

Og 3ser (sado)
I like sf5. i think it has a very 3s ee Feel to it. I FUCKING HATED sf4. sfv doe… it’s cool n fun except for rog bs

[Everdred]

I like 3s cus it felt like there was more than one solution to a problem or situation. In sfv I feel there are fewer ways to beat certain things.

[MourningIIstar]

Didn’t really have a fun time playing 4, years later into SFV, I realize I hated 4. FA cancels made almost anything safe. 1 framers were dumb imo, yeah you can do things like jab jab jab sweep but is having to practice that and have precise execution worth it? Later in the game you could do hefty red focus combos, but that just favored the execution fiends (which the game already heavily favored) and alienated people who liked the neutral game. Ultras were a hit and miss.

My favorite series was the Alpha series which I feel is very comparable to SFV. I think the whole “stale” view people have about SFV is more of how most season 1 characters were designed. Now that we see more complex characters coming out in season 2 the game seems a lot more entertaining to watch, while keeping the gameplay pretty balanced in terms of the neutral, rush, defensive, and combo aspects.

[jblair]

sfv sucks, it’s too slow, movesets are limited in use, offensive pressure is basically hit/throw until you are stunned/dead and if they block you just do a pointless blockstring or try to tick throw with your pathetic frame advantage until you are pushed back into the HELLISHLY boring neutral game

This is a wrong estimation of the SFV pressure game and neutral. If you play V like that, and its your only approach to pressure you want be getting far. You have to know the range of the pokes of your opponent well and do stuff like a blockstring that leaves you for example minus on block but at a range where your opponent will try and press a good poke they have - but you do a step back and they whiff, because you know your blockstring left you at that specific range. Then you simply go on and whiff punish them. You can space your moves that are minus on block at a range where you’re too far away for them to do a light attack and take their turn- but a mid attack will lose to your light attack even tho frame wise it was “their turn”, cuz you catch them in the startup frames of their mid attack. Alone those two approaches to the neutral will allow you to steamroll anybody with decent knowledge of the game and the frames but not enough about how the footsy game is played in SFV - for example someone like yourself. Then again all of that changes and becomes even deeper once you have too opponents to understand and play the game it is intended to. All of that leaves the good ol’ simple frame trap completely out. If you know they spaced themselves so your mid attack will be run over by their light attack you can simply delay your attack and get a CH combo etc. etc. it’s really not that simple you make it out to be.

Also maybe you will argue well that’s all random and fuck that - well maybe, but a lot of those situations require good reactions, and you need to be able do convert your CH and maybe CC to their full extend, just pressing the combos and hope you get a counterhit in those situations want help you either. And also the same “random” argument goes for the 3s parry. Why the fuck would you dare to punish if you parry for example a c.MK of Ken? he could always let loose his SAIII and punish you for your right read and execution of your parry and attempt to punish of it.

duh. game is still ass

EDIT: I’ll even beat you in this trash game if it will give credence to my hatred.

ANOTHER ONE:

This is on point. It’s amazing that people don’t know this…and it’s somewhat true for older games as well.

I will say that SFV was the game that got me looking at frame data.

wtf are you talking about? Of course it’s true for older games. That’s a simple breakdown of how to play footsies in any damn game and SFV is a game for babies.

[p1nkt1t5]

sfv sucks, it’s too slow, movesets are limited in use, offensive pressure is basically hit/throw until you are stunned/dead and if they block you just do a pointless blockstring or try to tick throw with your pathetic frame advantage until you are pushed back into the HELLISHLY boring neutral game

This is a wrong estimation of the SFV pressure game and neutral. If you play V like that, and its your only approach to pressure you want be getting far. You have to know the range of the pokes of your opponent well and do stuff like a blockstring that leaves you for example minus on block but at a range where your opponent will try and press a good poke they have - but you do a step back and they whiff, because you know your blockstring left you at that specific range. Then you simply go on and whiff punish them. You can space your moves that are minus on block at a range where you’re too far away for them to do a light attack and take their turn- but a mid attack will lose to your light attack even tho frame wise it was “their turn”, cuz you catch them in the startup frames of their mid attack. Alone those two approaches to the neutral will allow you to steamroll anybody with decent knowledge of the game and the frames but not enough about how the footsy game is played in SFV - for example someone like yourself. Then again all of that changes and becomes even deeper once you have too opponents to understand and play the game it is intended to. All of that leaves the good ol’ simple frame trap completely out. If you know they spaced themselves so your mid attack will be run over by their light attack you can simply delay your attack and get a CH combo etc. etc. it’s really not that simple you make it out to be.

Also maybe you will argue well that’s all random and fuck that - well maybe, but a lot of those situations require good reactions, and you need to be able do convert your CH and maybe CC to their full extend, just pressing the combos and hope you get a counterhit in those situations want help you either. And also the same “random” argument goes for the 3s parry. Why the fuck would you dare to punish if you parry for example a c.MK of Ken? he could always let loose his SAIII and punish you for your right read and execution of your parry and attempt to punish of it.

duh. game is still ass

EDIT: I’ll even beat you in this trash game if it will give credence to my hatred.

ANOTHER ONE:

This is on point. It’s amazing that people don’t know this…and it’s somewhat true for older games as well.

I will say that SFV was the game that got me looking at frame data.

wtf are you talking about? Of course it’s true for older games. That’s a simple breakdown of how to play footsies in any damn game and SFV is a game for babies.

You make no sense.

[evilj]

Jblair: Your original post indicated that it was too simplified. We disagreed and say it’s more complex, to which you agree and say it applies also to older games…

so make up your mind, which is it? Is it too simplified because of the frame advantage or is more complex like older games?

[Dime]

Semantics. The game is more simplified in certain aspects and more complex in others. I think that he’s saying is that the places where it is simplified were more fun when they were more complex.

For me this is true, and I also don’t find to much fun in the games more complex systems because I find them redundant.

To each their own though, I hated 3s as well.

[p1nkt1t5]

3s is an elegant game. It is a simple and streamlined modern 2d fighter, whiles retaining and adding to the depth that ST established.

[nozarex]

I’ll even beat you in this trash game if it will give credence to my hatred.

If you live in Europe I’m happy to fight you with my Bonita.

[NG1313]

I’ll even beat you in this trash game if it will give credence to my hatred.

If you live in Europe I’m happy to fight you with my Bonita.

Dating for a fighting game player…

Another similarity aside the dash-in mixups between Third Strike & SFV we haven’t mentioned yet is that you can time your heavy attacks to crush counter or – “parry”, pretty much exactly the same way, i.e. timing.

[otakugamer223]

SF5 tries to be like 3S but ultimately is just not, honestly I feel SF4 is more similar to 3S because you always have options on offense and defense and you have greater opportunity to be creative. In SF5 everything is bad. Neutral buttons are bad, offense is bad but defense is even worse: everything is gimped and oversimplified.

In 3S you always have an answer for every situation and you’re never truly helpless, even when you’re in an unblockable situation you have options. In SF5 you have almost no options on defense and always have to suffer through ridiculous 50/50 setups where even if you correctly block you lose sometimes a good 20-30 damage in gray health and chip. Which is fine until you realize that the neutral game is all about flailing stubby normals or CC normals that are so hard to make whiff because of the walkspeeds, recovery and hurtboxes.

Overall SF5 is always such an oppressive game where you are always so limited on what you can do and how you do it, and 3S is a game with so much freedom and so many tools to work with that you always have answers to every situation and never feel boxed. I like the principle of SF5 but the execution just falls so flat.

[Hol_Horse]

It has these similarities:

• animated better than its predecessor
• fast dashes
• easy BnB execution
• single hit confirms

but on a whole it’s widely different and to me feels dull compared to 3s

[Za_Fuuru]

the neutral game is all about flailing stubby normals or CC normals that are so hard to make whiff because of the walkspeeds

walk speed in 3S is very slow. The game overall is very slow, but the pacing is OK since there is no hard knockdown aside from Super Arts

the only tool you have in 3S is parrying, it’s not “so many tools”. I agree parrying is awesome and prevents some matchups from being completely broken. Just think about Hugo VS a zoner without parrying. would be a nightmare.

[Dime]

Sf5 has lots of similarities between alpha 2 and 3s, but it captures the magic of neither game.

Alpha had oppressive pokes and most things being safe on block and not necessarily giving up your turn. While also having no dash and fast walk speeds and small stages. The small stages thing is huge because it forces action or the corner. Sf5 has HUGE stages.

3s has parry, and parry opens up a huge amount of mind games from throws to slow moves when it’s technically correct to use fast moves, and fast moves when it’s technically correct to use slow moves, it also has a high/low game because of parry.

And throws are huge in that game.

Sf5 takes basically the worst aspects of both games and puts it in streetfighter. Some people like it because it still harkens back to nostalgia for them if they are wearing dark enough glasses and can delude themselves into thinking it’s 3s/alpha 2 with updated graphics and gameplay. But in all honesty it’s just a game where everything is highly nerfed and it feels like a step backwards in terms of gameplay.

[Tebbo]

5 is all about the esports.
3S is about as far away from esports as you can possibly be.

look at the collision for 5 and then look at 3S.
that tells you pretty much everything.

[Hol_Horse]

5 is all about the esports.
3S is about as far away from esports as you can possibly be.

In short, 3S is about fun