Not the character you think is already really solid just under repped like Cody or Guile but what character is one that feels just on the edge of breaking through via some new tech or new play style?
Obviously the #1 pick is Hakan so let’s just mention him right now. A lot of people think it is just a matter of the right player and the right tech at a major to show the potential of Hakan. I think he has potential to be crazy good but that oil mechanic is always going to be a liability that keeps him from seeing more common play in tournaments unless he is flat out BROKEN via some unblockable tech that works on like half the cast and is easy to do.
Gouken isn’t really “breaking through” but infiltration and several other players have shown strong growth with him that isn’t really “explosive” but certainly moves him up from being a character most people write off.
The character I personally think is just waiting to flat out break SF4 is Oni, he is also one of my least favorite characters both from a gameplay design and character design. However I can’t deny that he has all the puzzle pieces for a strong character (strong reversal, solid even if not great fireball, good mobility, solid normals and mixups.) Perhaps people concentrate too much on his demon slash gimmicks. I really feel that once the right player comes out and shows everyone how Oni is MEANT to be played (Like Infiltration did with Akuma/Gouken and Poongko did with Seth) that people will start to explore him and find out what he can do.
I think Oni might have potential. He’s incredibly underrated.
Evil Ryu is getting more tech by the day and has potential too. Good all around moves and awesome damage. Once you get around his long learning curve he is really solid.
Well that’s how it works. They’re good but understated/used, and they climb up over time. Oni and Evil Ryu are the newer characters and weren’t flat out op’ed in the previous version like the twins, so it will take time to realize their true potential.
Yes but despite online tony’s playing, Seth was ranked low on both western and japanese tier lists. Until Poongko showed up at EVO and blew everyone out of the water Japan had Seth listed as around the 5th-6th lowest rank character on their tier lists. Sometimes it just takes the right player to do it.
Combofiend has been showing that Oni isn’t a weak character for quite some time now as well but it hasn’t stopped people from generally writing him off as a character that isn’t terribly tournament viable. I really think it takes someone showing the character’s potential on a big stage against a big name player. That or a major step up in terms of tech (which sometimes that isn’t enough without the results to back it up as Hakan’s uncrouchable oil dive tech has shown.)
That’s wrong though…Seth was ranked low in AE because j.HP and Ultra 1 changes made him lose a fuck ton of points. Ultra 1 was given back somewhat, twins got nerfed hard, all bad match ups nerfed to varying degrees excluding Cammy/Sakura. He never really shot up in the tiers, as Seth has always placed relatively high numberwise in Vanilla and Super, nobody wanted to play him because 750 health/stun was just kinda rough (although Poongko started playing him in Super.) Japan was probably sleeping on his mix up capabilities though (AE devs probably realized it during development, as head stomps active all day had some…ridiculous applications…) I think he can actually rise up a little bit more.
ComboFiend has certainly not been showing that Oni is a strong character. He can still move up if tech comes around - I mean, nobody has that air dash, his non-EX DP has the most invincibility in the game among the DPs, and very few characters can AA for as much as he can - but not without it.
Hakan is actually pretty strong, and a couple of top players agree with that. Starting up oiled is a bigger deal than most people realize. Someone will show that guy off eventually. Evil Ryu will probably shoot up a bit, although unless some new stuff comes out, not by that much. Yun and Yang will shoot up a bit if people ever go back to them. Yun will probably start to rise first, since Yang is gonna need someone with excellent execution to bring him back on the map. I often forget that Yang hits pretty damn hard in the corner too…
Lol, that’s a funny avatar. Oni has a lot going for him. Good damage and mobility through the air, and most importantly he doesn’t have bad health.
Hakan has a lot of potential, but I’m not sure if he’ll ever get to top tier. Evil Ryu and Oni are new characters and they haven’t been fully explored at all. There have been many new setups and tech discovered by him even just a few months ago. This won’t happen overnight though, which is fine. He’s somewhat underrated as is Oni. Oni was probably better than he was in AE though. People don’t realize that Evil Ryu’s power lies in resetting his damage to do 500+ damage off of no meter, or off of 1 meter for untechable knockdown and high low setups. Once people master that and showcase it in all its glory, then who knows?
Oni probably has some stuff but Evil Ryu doesn’t really have anything that can be exploited. If someone can figure out a mid-combo meaty into sweep that’d shoot him up real fast but that stuffs a bitch to figure out (Seth has one but the spacing is so specific that it might as well not exist.) His dive kick hit box was pretty derpy though IIRC so it might have some stuff down the road.
He has a jab sweep combo that somebody did with meter. I think Evil Ryu is just user unfriendly and takes a lot of time before he’s flushed out.
Naruo and a few others have used some powerful resets in matches against Seth and the like and have done like 70-80% health out of a footsie situation which is incredible. But no, Evil Ryu has no gimmicks at all and you have to take the hard path. Who knows though. His power is in his reset ability into thinks like ex axe kick (which is pretty much free because you build a meter doing the combo) or another combo or crossup combo.
Doing his bnb and ending it into a reset into a ex axe alone does 500 damage or so and it sets up an untechable knockdown. Honestly it isn’t worth it to even use the normal bnb much at all unless you are fadc’ing into ex axe (which I prefer to reset in most cases for more damage).
Oni is probably the most underrated character of all. Lots of tools and good health with decent normals and good damage. Not a bad mix.
Ahhh, you main Seth… my bad… all Seth’s seem to think everyone on the cast are bad matchups for them o.O
"er my gerd dhalsim ooltra dus lyk 60% helf sef sux men crapcom u sux"
Typical xD
xD xD xD
Poongko was eliminated from Evo by … Cammy and Sakura!
Spoiler
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[INDENT=1]When Seth had j.HP with a nearly risk free Ultra 1, I thought the MU was 6-4 because Sakura really could not get in for shit and usually ended up getting kept out for about half the game and getting caught by dash SPD at some point into the mix up insanity. But without j.HP Sakura just controls the risk:reward at all times outside of her not having three bars on a KD or being totally full screen. Shit, when she has three bars she can actually just walk forward for free because she can opt to spend the meter on a free mix up attempt (which is actually rather sound since Sakura usually doesn’t have much to work with after backdash cancelling an EX DP anywho.) Not something I really factor into the match up since those situations are kinda rare though.[/INDENT]
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[INDENT=1]Now granted if you can’t do the fancy combos (and not many can), the match up is much closer to 5-5.[/INDENT]
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[INDENT=1]edit: Actually maybe I should factor the random EX DP cancel into the MU since I see a few really good Sakura players doing it somewhat often haha…[/INDENT]
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[INDENT=1]Well Seth can still play some really conservative keep away with success against Sakura but he backs himself into the corner. Once he gets near a certain portion of the screen (not stuck in the corner yet) he becomes unable to effectively zone because of the insane risk he takes by trying to push Sakura back with fst.HP. He can throw booms still but most people are gonna tell you that throwing booms at that range against Sakura with that recovery is pretty suicidal.[/INDENT]
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[INDENT=1]Seth can try to nj.MP/nj.HP/nj.HK to keep Sakura from doing jumps just outside of his AA area when he doesn’t have Ultra 1 but I don’t see this too often.[/INDENT]
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Getting outplayed by poongko is not losing to Seth. Sakura has flat out better walk speed, better damage output, better stun output, more health, more stun, and better buttons. The only things Seth does better than Sakura is zoning (which doesn’t work very well) and having better “fuck it” options. The primary counter to better buttons for Seth, Tanden Engine, is hard to commit to: without Ultra 1, Seth literally can’t AA Sakura at certain angles which typically line up with where he wants to Tanden Engine. That isn’t to say Sakura can just jump in for free - HP DP does it’s job - but she can jump into a position that puts her in range for pressure, and Seth will be stuck recovering if he went for the Tanden Engine to get her out of that range. Ultra 1 stops this for the most part, but the problem with having Ultra 1 is that you’re down a lot of life and likely on your ass - never a good place to be.
side note: theoretically Seth can AA Sakura at said problem ranges, but…well, see for yourself:
DP at least trades, but it isn’t a good one. Seth can spend meter to have a better AA game, but I don’t think it’s a good thing to have to spend meter to AA.
Coupled with tons of dirty set ups, painful character specific combos (400/650 meterless kd midscreen? wtf) character specific normal issues (st.LP hitting long range crouching lolol), and unblockables that I’m unaware of, it’s hard for me to compromise on this match up. It’s simply hard for Seth. I don’t think it’s a 7-3 MU because Sakura does have issues when she is knocked down herself, but it’s a solid 6-4.
Seth struggles against Chun on paper, but it doesn’t play out that way because her normals don’t work very well against Seth’s dive kick and her damage output is lacking.
Finally, the numbers I gave for Seth more or less shove him in top 7 at the very least.
Damn dude, didn’t know you were a bad ass, my bad.
Anyway yeah, Poongko is losing because people have started to figure out the Seth game and he isn’t taking as much gambles as he was before.
That being said I’m not talking about high level pro tournament players here.
Bit of a stupid argument really.
Poongko has beaten Sakura/Cammy’s on many occasions and won yet you Seth players fail to notice when you’re absolutely dominating opponents but one loss and you go cry about his health.
Stupid really.
How about you call a friend who’s a really good Seth, and use Sakura and see if you can even win a round…
Seriously, you guys are way too biased
Should try and play this matchup and see for yourself how hopeless it is.
How do you expect Sakura to build meter when she’s constantly having to risk jump just to not get pulled into the STUPID tanden/spd vortex BS is beyond me.
You’re not qualified to talk about matchups you don’t understand.
You’re just spouting whatever “issues” you have against Seth, but seem clueless to three hell storm Sakura makes Seth go threw.
Please go watch high level footage of proper Sakura/Seth play and maybe you’ll understand it a bit better. Just because Poongko goes crazy in one match which gets uploaded because it’s a highlight is no proper judgement of a match. I’m sure if you see T.Hawk beating a Blanka it makes the matchup 6-4 Hawk as opposed to the 2-8 crap he has to go through.
I’m sorry but what the actual hell.
I watch Poongko high level Seth/Sakura play constantly.
I’ve seen just about any Seth v Sakura match and while yes, Sakura tends to win most of them its only because Uryo, Saki, Juso’s mom outplayed him as the smarter player not because of the character…
I’m not stupid, I am an understanding individual but the claims you’re making are ridiculous… 6-4 in Sakura’s favour lol.
You talk about how Seth has a hard time dealing with Sakura, but you should also notice how very difficult it is for the Sakura…
