What changes would you make to Guile in a re-balanced AE?

[gilley]

tldr; quit listening to idiots and put the autocorrect fix back on the change list.

First of all, chill out. I have nothing against Guile, otherwise I wouldn’t have come here and ask your oppinion. I could just simply list whatever I want, point out how many times Dieminion/Nuckledu placed top 8 at a major and say Guile doesn’t need much, but I didn’t.

Don’t forget to use their most recent performance if you’re going to point out Dieminon and Knuckledu
(hint: they’re getting blown up by repeated crossups and too scared to FK jump-ins)

Yes, no guile mainer expressed concern with autocorrect fix - those who expressed concern are here at srk - and don’t play guile. And there were quite a few people who strongly disagreed with this change.

So I went through that entire thread trying to figure out what you mean by “quite a few people strongly disagreed”. The only thing I could find was on page 103 there was some discussion on it. I found only 6 people who were against it and came to the conclusion they really don’t understand the game. You really shouldn’t be listening to these people.

*superlollo says:

I’m not sure that the FK “glitch” has to be fixed. It’s already hard enough to get in on Guile, he should be heavily disadvantaged when knocked down. I’m not even sure this is a “glitch” tbh, maybe capcom wanted it to be like this on purpose.*

This is one of the main arguments against having autocorrect fixed on FK. It can be hard to get in on Guile. But here’s the thing, the range at which you can crossup Guile is also the range WHERE YOU ARE ALREADY IN ON HIM. So, the argument doesn’t hold up saying that you need to be able to get in on him, cause you already are!

*metallicaband says:

Flash kick is a 4f reversal which is hard to safejump for many characters, making it auto correct will make it Very hard to pressure Guile’s weakness which is when he’s knocked down.
*

Huh? what does the ability to safejump something have anything to do with crossups. This guy is confused or something.

He continues with a weak statement…

Do you have any idea how this change alone will fuck up Gief for example?

I am assuming he’s talking about Gief’s crossup d+hp and d+lk. So I do know what this will do to the Gief matchup…absolutely nothing. See, I’m going to let you and all the other Guile’s out there in on a secret. Guile can beat both the d+hp and the d+lk crossups currently by waking up with either a c.lp or a s.lk. C.lp beats the splash clean or trades if it’s a very deep jump-in. S.lk will trade with Gief’s d+lk. So, having the FK autocorrect in this situation will do nothing since Guile already can get out of this situation. Again, this is a poor argument.

Off topic, but still somewhat related note. I actually want Gief’s EX green hand to knock down again, cause every single Gief ALWAYS went for d+hp shenannigans afterwards, which I found out how to beat. Currently it doesn’t knock down and I have to play the whole “is he going to s.mp me, SPD me, or get hit with another EX green hand game”. There’s more of a guessing game currently.

*Julpero says:

Exactly. Guile would be 8-2 versus at least Sakura and Gen and even worse against Bison. Sakura’s only chance in the match is basically that once she gets in she can stun him in two combos. Now that’s pretty much out of the picture since there’s little chance that the second combo is ever hitting. Gen would be even worse.*

Again with the same weak argument. The range at which you can crossup Guile is the same range at which you are already in on him.

*Azza says:

Flash Kick not auto correcting is not a bug. Its part of his character design. He would be simply too strong if that auto corrected.*

You really want to listen to a Bison player? You know they’re going to do everything to make sure Guile doesn’t get what he needs. Nevermind that the reason why Bison has such a hard time with Guile isn’t because of Guile himself but because of Bison’s character.

Here’s a good one…
*Da Knut says:

That buff alone would give him a few 7-3 matchups
*

And nothing else. Nothing to backup the statement…Great argument bro!

*shinebox says:

Also, most Guiles will start to save meter for wake up flash kicks to FADC since it will auto correct for them now, you already have people taking about the advantage of wake up reversals to FADC on blocks and we want to add more opportunities for Guile to use it? on top of that it ARMOR breaks?*

What he doesn’t realize is that a FADC’d FK is NEVER SAFE ON BLOCK. Guile is -4/-10 on a forward/backward FADC’d FK. It’s easily punished but for some reason they just don’t know this. You know what else this guy probably doesn’t know, how good/bad FK would be if it autocorrect…another weak argument.

• Yes, Guile is almost the same as in ST, but Sf4 is not. Kd plays a much more important role than in ST, and reversal timing is much more lenient.

I’m not sure why you bring up ST when I was talking about all the other games he’s been in. I’m also confused why you bring up reversal timing. It has nothing to do with what I’m talking about with autocorrect. And in case you didn’t know ST doesn’t have EX moves so you can piano and then negative edge piano all in one motion in ST as you wakeup and it guarantees you wakeup with a reversal every single time. It’s just as easy as SF4’s reversal timing when you know this trick…again, another argument that doesn’t hold up.

• And regarding Dee Jay: yes, his upkicks autocorrects, BUT - they don’t hit crouching opponents, AND are not fadcable, whic makes a big difference.

Again, poor arguments. Guile’s FK might as well not be FADC’able(defensively). What most people don’t know about the FK is that Guile is -4 on FADC forward, and -10 on FADC backwards. Both are EASILY punishable but no one seems to do it, even till this day.

If you want, come to Sf4 rebalance thread and explain your point of view - if people agree, I have nothing against including this buff on the list.

I think I’ve shown that the arguments going on in that thread aren’t very strong so I don’t think I need to make any comments in there. I also didn’t see “quite a few people” who strongly disagreed with fixing autocorrect for Guile. I’m pretty sure your list wont matter though as Capcom is more than likely going to be looking through the thread on their forums. It’s quite obvious what needs to be looked at with Guile after reading his thread.

[Ahgama]

I can see why people are afraid of auto-correct fix because yes, Guile should have a weakness to cross-ups but I think there’s some perception that once it is fixed then Guile will be completely invincible to cross-ups as long as he has charge.

I don’t think this would actually be the case because Flash Kick itself is not that good at hitting that particular spot unlike DP moves. He won’t magically get DJ ex-upkicks. Even if we did get auto-corrected in certain situations, it would still whiff… just in the other direction. This would simply help with some situations where it was not even a particularly well timed cross-up and Guile has all the time in the world to turn around yet still doesn’t so we get punished for what should have been a fairly judged anti-air FK. Of course it would be more irritating to fight against an auto-correcting Guile but it is in the interest of system-wide fairness.

It’s not like Guile can ONLY die through getting crossed-up.

[Emanuelb]

Ok, then how about:

• remove Sobat and cl Hp buffs
• add - fix turnaround glitch.

Regarding the list, I’m sure capcom will go through the threads (at least I hope so), but you never know, my list might help. Especially since there are a lot of crazy posts at CU.

[gilley]

yes! Sobat buff isn’t going to do much to the character and close s.hp buff definitely isn’t going to do anything to improve Guile. C.mp is usually a better link to go for after the UDK anyways. It’s safer and allows for more followups.

[Rexell]

FK autocorrect should have been fixed long ago. It’s nothing compared to Ryu’s autocorrect 3f no-charge dp fadcable to ultra. Empty jump would also beat autocorrect attempts on all characters so it’s not really a significant buff in any way.

It’s come to my mind recently that giving cs.lp a bigger hitbox downwards so it hits more crouch blocking opponents is a good buff for Guile.

Cs.hp should remain as it is. There are some characters that are worth doing c.lk, cs.lp, s.hp, s.hp combo on.

I think lp boom should have more stun on hit as well for more followup options, as one of Guile’s strong points was his boom combo game in the corner.

A simpler way would be just to nerf all divekicks’ recovery in this game but that’s not gonna happen.

[Slinkun]

Gilley is spot on as usual. The thing is, flashkick still has a big forward movement attached to it, and it would still be easy to cross him up after a knockdown even with the turn-around glitch fixed. It just means that people would have to space and time their crossups appropriately instead of just do a braindead, big hitbox crossup on his wakeup. It’s not like if this was changed that gief wouldn’t be able to splash after a 360K grab or bison wouldn’t be able to ambiguous j.hp. Like Gilley said, a whole lot of people just don’t understand how the game works. Oni has the best anti-crossup DP in the game and I have still made that thing whiff in the wrong direction with a smart crossup.

• Crossup glitch
• Sobat hitboxes
• FK hits opponent further for easier FADC U2
• maybe a little U2 buff to either damage or speed

Any more is too strong, but honestly, if they only fixed the turn-around hurtbox, I’d be happy.

[Rodrim]

1 - more meter in Sonic Boom;
2 - more damage in Sonic Hurricane, including full damage in juggles;
3 - a goddamn decent Flash Kick (its hitbox is ridiculous);
4 - correct a bug in Guile’s wake up allowing him to autocorrect reversals just like other characters do.

[learis1]

Make his shades actually mean something in addition to being cool.

Ex) When Guile puts on his shades, he blocks out sunlight better. Therefore, maybe his flashkick priority increases since he can look to the skies better without glare. He doesn’t have as many stupid trades as we’re used to seeing. However as a tradeoff, his sonic-boom damage is slightly nerfed… maybe because he can’t jar his body as quickly to do it or else his shades will fly off! lolololololol.