What are your thoughts on Ryu's USF4 changes?

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
141

when I hear combofind say : Ryu: The guys said you can play more of your own style of Ryu now, as he has more options to show off with in USF4. He’s still the solid character that he was before, but he can show off now. Ultra 2 is a lot more viable, too.
I am sad… having Y2 not completly useless is not gona create a new style for ryu.
jump mp is an add that will be use after a shoryu fadc, but shoryu fadc is -5 on block now…

Combofiend also talked about how RZR|Fuudo used to be a Ryu player, but dropped the character because he felt Fei Long was stronger. He doesn’t want to see that happen again with USF4, as he wants people to stick to their guns, and the characters to be viable enough to do so.

just a rumor but I heard that daigo was think about switching to Hugo. May be that will make combofind realize about ryu’s attraction…

142

Yea right Daigo doesn’t know how to play grapple characters lol

143

Daigo may not have main any grapplers in the past, however if it is indeed true, then I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised. Have you seen the Hakan buffs? Basically put, Non-oiled Hakan is much, much more legit now, which was his biggest problem in my opinion that stopped him from being a strong competitive competitor. However with all of the buffs that now help him play when he’s not oiled, but no nerfs for when he is in fact oiled…Hakan is in the group of “He looks really scary” in Ultra.

Lastly, I know we’ve been ripping a lot on the Ryu buffs/changes or lack there of however someone posted a video on youtube w/ the USF4 Ryu mods for the PC and displayed some pretty crazy Juggling potentials off of J.mp into hurricane cancel. Remember what I had stated in my very first post within this thread that j.mp into hurricane could only be a pretty legitimate buff if it allowed Ryu more juggling opportunities afterwards.

Well, you watch the video you’ll notice the damage potential that can come off from it. So maybe the j.mp into hurricane kick cancel might possibly have more potential then most have given credit for, including myself.

Of course all speculation since this is the PC mod, so it’s not the actual USF4 game itself, not to mention 90% of the combos were done at the corner, and lastly I still stand by the fact this is a situational thing, so not truly effective. However it’s still interesting nonetheless and not only that but the music of choice is pretty good too imo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTEb315QajE

144

I have the usf4 mod. what you have to understand is that the jump mp is far too situational. you have to hit air to air while going done. else if you cancel the tatsu he will touch do some damage but will not allow any specific follow up.

then about combo possibities, hp shoryu is 160, mp shoryu fadc jump mp tatsu : 202.
except to secure a kill that a waste of meter as a AA

about ground combo st.hp hado fadc cr mk tatsu make 1 point of damage more that st hp lp shoryu fadc jump mp tatsu.
the second combo might push a little bit more to the corner and I am not even sure. so once again useless…

if there is a way to touch two hit with the tatsu after shoryu fadc jump mp tatsu ( 2 hit) that should had an extra 100 damage, making it 300 as an AA and
better for combo. but not on the build I have.

CAPCOM please give back HP shoryu fadc to Ryu!!! Now it s - 5 after fadc so it should be ok to give him back some of his damage!

Actually for me , + 5 after SLS ( that doesn t change anything off line and it s good online) and hp shoryu fadc will make Ryu good in this version.

145

a 160 damage 200 stun 3 frame startup invincible good hitbox 1hit reversal is way too good to allow it to be fadc’d into full ultra or backdash or now j.mp x tatsu

146

yes that so good that Ryu in vanilla was godlike…

basically take the damage I showed add 70 and tell me if they are so high…

you will use 2 ex for a 140 damage more. and a AA of 300.
and for punish st mk hado fadc cr hp shoryu is like 40 damage less than cr hp shoryu hp fadc jump mp tatsu…

now shoryu fadc as AA is useless( 2 ex for 40 damage) and as punish is useless too( 1 damage less than cr hp hado fadc cr mk tatsu…)
so Ryu change are :
1 frame of block stun more that might still make cr mk hado unfocusable,
situational jump mp cancel that is useless( most of the time jump mp was after a shoryu fadc that was a reversal durning link , now that reversal shoryu fadc are unsafe this will happen less often…)
and a ultra 2 that you can land with 3 ex…(good but expensive…might be his best buff actually)

147

J.mp into hurricane kick cancel is pointless.

I dont know about you guys but most good players wont be jumping around like a monkey.

They wait until they get into range and you throw a hadoken and then jump. That buff is useless
just to keep Ryu players quiet.

148

If they allowed HP DP FADC it would actually make the jump mp tatsu combo useful because of the huge damage potential off of just one jump in. To balance the change they should reduce the damage of ultra though so he doesn’t get too much dmg from DP FADC ultra. I think that’s fair in my opinion, but there is no possibility of this happening and to be honest I don’t see any other changes for Ryu other than what we currently got.

149

just to make it clear, if it remain the same, shoryu fadc jump mp tatsu as AA is useless( 2 ex for 45 damage more),
cr hp shoryu fadc jump mp tatsu as a punish is useless too.( less damage that cr hp hado fadc cr mk tatsu)
and doing a shoryu as a reversal then jump mp tatsu is becoming to dangerous with the - 5 after fadc on guard…

So basically useless change that might seems cool, but are completly useless.

at max range you can still fadc the hado of cr mk hado…
so the only real change is the ex shoryu being buff and giving huge damage potential( followed by U2).that cost 3 ex…

red focus and delayed wake up will have more impact on ryu than any of his own changes…

just tested a little bit so :
for punish :
-sls then cr hp lp shoryu fadc jump mp tatsu 359 for 2 ex
-sls st mk hado fadc cr hp shoryu hp : 395

so jump mp tatsu useless.

then as a punish 5 frame :
cr hp shoryu fadc jump mp tatsu 293
st mk hado fadc cr hp shoryu hp : 334

thanks capcom for this change that is going to really matter for Ryu.

useless that all.

150

I talked about this earlier in the thread. But I just wanted to reiterate it. I don’t know if it actually works in the real USF4, but in KBT’s mod Ryu’s air HK tatsu hits twice from a j. MP after EX SRK, FADC. Here are some numbers

EX DP, FADC, j. MP, HK tatsu 334
st. HP, EX DP, FADC, j. MP, HK tatsu 406
F+HP, cr. HP, EX DP, FADC, j. MP HK tatsu 445

Maybe the real benefit of j. MP > tatsu will come from EX SRK FADC. I know it’s very expensive, but to always have access to that kind of damage as long as you have the meter is a pretty nice addition. Well if it actually works that is.

151

I don t think that it will be the same in USF4.

Daigo was playing ryu in usf4, so that great he is not switching.
He is playing U2. Not sure it s because it was for the show or if he really think that due to damage output after ex shoryu now U2 is the best choice.

what we can see :
jump mp was never used… just as shoryu fadc jump mp tatsu.
bonchan focused between crmk and hado…
ex shoryu fadc ulra wiffed as AA( ex shoryu was not deep enough).
cr.mk block stun allow a little bit more pressure

152

I said I wouldn’t keep up with the updates for Ultra…but it’s Street Fighter, so how could I ever deter away from it…

Anyways, don’t know if anyone here watched it, but yesterday they showcased USF4 at the Japan Amusement Expo 2014 which featured Daigo playing as Ryu in Ultra Street Fighter IV taking on the likes of Haitani with Makoto etc, etc.

It doesn’t show him utilizing the j.mp in any situation (which pretty states our fears that it’s situational and not useful as a fundamental play for Ryu…which is what Want) however the most interesting aspect of this exhibition was the fact that Daigo was utilizing Metsu-Shoryuken or Ultra II and not Ultra I w/ Metsu-Hadouken. Given this is Clearly exhibition and I’m assuming that he’ll be utilizing U1 at high levels of play.

He did not get to use U2 on the high leveled players but he did of course get to land it on the scrub Ryu cosplayer, even landing the Ex-ShoryuxxFadcxxU2. It also looked very good as an Anti-Air as well, in which Daigo demonstrated…once again on the newbie, but what they’ve said so far seems legit in terms for Metsu-Shoryuken.

The curious part now is that since Shoryuken into FADC is now -5 and you’re basically forced to having to use Ex-Shoryuken to making it safe, then the ability to landing U2 afterwards becomes a more meaningful buff because of the better damage output. Now I’m wondering if someone such as Daigo my in fact opt to use Ultra 2, or that he’ll simply be sticking to U1.

Let’s face it, with the nerf into -5, you’ve taken away a great versatility from U1, which was the safe option to get this Ultra going. Their is no denying that if their wasn’t a nerf on the Fadc part than 100% even w/ the buffs to U2, that U1 would still be vastly superior. We can’t exactly make that case anymore, and as always we can’t really make any accurate guesses at this point, but it would be interesting see if High Leveled Ryu players will opt for U2 because of the unsafe changes to Fadc, sticking to U1 or if the option for both Ultras could potentially be viable, since 75% of the original damage is still nothing to scuff at.

Here’s the Video down below and if you just want to get to the fight it starts at 19:30, however if you want to see Daigo in action then it’s at 23:12.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PboO7c4izu0

Enjoy, and on to more theory fighting about USF4 Ryu until we all can finally get our hands on the finished product.

153

Kim1234 posted a tweet saying that it is possible to get 2 hits on the tatsu from his testing, but until we get the game ourselves it will be impossible to tell how effective and reliable it will be.

154

You keep saying that the “cr mk 1 more frame block stun is good" but the change so far is:

Ryu

Crouching medium kick: Decreased disadvantage on block (-3F->-2F)
Jump forward/back middle punch: Can be cancelled into an air Tatsumaki
Air Tatsumaki: Will always combo after jumping medium punch
EX Air Tatsumaki: Hitbox and vacuum effect adjusted to increase consistency
Light/Medium Shoryuken: Disadvantage after focus cancel forward dash on block increased (-5F on block)
Shin Shoryuken: Invincibility increased (8F->9F)
Shin Shoryuken: Plays full animation if connected after an EX Shoryuken FADC cancel

Crouching medium kick: Decreased disadvantage on block (-3F->-2F) has nothing to do with block stun, when you throw the hadoken it cancel the recovery of the cr mk so doesn’t matter if it’s -3 or -2, for that, the change will have to be “+1 frame block stun on cr mk" (like they did with evil Ryu). The only thing happening here is that when you throw cr mk and the opponent block now the recovery of the move will be -2 instead of -3 (anyway at -3 it was safe so pretty useless change).

155

that explain why during is fight aainst bonchan we can see that daigo got is cr mk hado fadc and punished.

So even less change for ryu…

I still the same about Ryu delayed wake up and red fa will have more impact on his game that his changes.
Ex shoryu fadc U2 might make is U2 his best choice for all match up against character with no fireball…

156

I guess that means the cr. forward has one less recovery frame. This is going to mess up some of my set ups…

157

im pretty sure if they reduced the recovery then they would have said that saying its -2 on block now means it got 1 frame more blockstun that however does not making a true blockstring from max distance

158

Wrong. It’s not that hard to understand; recovery frames are… recovery frames and block stun is block stun. They didn’t give Ryu 1 more frame of block stun, they give him 1 less frame of recovery in cr mk which means that when your opponent blocks a cr mk you will be at -2 instead of -3; if you throw a FB after the blocked cr mk the FB will cancel the recovery frames of the cr mk no matter if it was 100 frames but that do not mean or have anything to do with the cr mk having more block stun; Ryu will not have a better block string from cr mk/hado in Ultra than in AE 2012. He will have a -2 recovery on a blocked cr mk instead of a -3.

159

So basically another useless buff. Goddamn it combofiend.

160

am pretty sure Ryu is doomed, with all the buff to nearly all the cast and the nerf on srk fadc its just gonna be hell

i could have accepted -5 srk fadc nerf IF there wasnt delayed wake up, this thing alone without taking into account any buff/nerf gonna hurt ryu ( and mostly all shotos ) really really hard, characters with fast/safe poke/specials gonna rise like cancer, turtle fest and lame gameplay instead of the actual semi offense/defense will be favorited

and before saying that you can confirm srk fadc block/hit please show me how, i tried and i couldnt even confirm it one time, and backdash is like -10billion thats not even an option against any decent playern even the worst players gonna be able to punish that, actually 5frame is enough to land nearly anythings to ultra with most of the casts

i dont think daigo will main Ryu in the longterm, unless he level up his gameplay to beyond the god that he’s already

however oni gonna be a monster, luckily i started playing him months ago… but damn my Ryu, i will main him to the bottom hell of the tier list I DONT CARE ! :’(