Ok, well since everyone thinks ryu is gonna suck, I’ll put what I think could put Ryu up at tops.
Focus breaker changed to hadoken (respect the FB)
AA DP follow up option, light kick tatsu (Damage option to encourage footsies)
U2 no change other than cut scene is always unscaled (a gift for people who blow meter to combo for dizzy)
Bring back special cancel-able sweep (longest poke on zoner should not be focus bait)
Bring back red fireball non-focus breaking (knockdown fireball with out meter, over use gets you focused)
overhead vs crouch on hit +2 can special cancel last recovery frame with fierce dp (mix up damage option)
solar plexus punch +1 on block (option to get in)
Hadoken 2 frames more blockstun (a blocked hadoken should be a bad thing)
Meter gain slightly faster (ryu always needed meter to be dangerous, I think he deserves to get his meter a little earlier)
Of course this is overpowering the character, but what do you guys think? What is good, what is stupid, what fits his playstyle, what doesn’t and what overpowers him.
in that case lets increase kens f.srk damage because right now ryu’s does more and make kens srk’s 2 frame startup after all all of ryu’s are 3 frame startup oh and make kens dash and walkspeed faster than ryu because ken is rushdown and was faster in 3s i mean we gotta make these characters apart
no need to be sarcastic. Ryu is a stronger turtler than ken by design, therefore he has a better hadoken. Ken should have a better shoryuken, at least in some way, but that’s not the case right now. Giving anybody a 2 frame shoryuken would break the whole game and you know it so dont bother suggesting it, don’t know why you got so mad over someone saying that ryu’s hadoken and cr.mk should be better than ken’s. If you have suggestions for ken then post them in the ken forum.
Certainly was not mad the reason I was sarcastic is because saying ryu’s fireball should do 80 damage (lol) just because kens shitty fireball got increased to 70 is dumb and when we start thinking that way then all of ryus shoryukens should be nerfed and kens buffed its just a stupid way of thinking and I was pointing that out
Lets get this straight: Ken’s shoryukens are light years better than Ryu’s shoryukens: Ken lp dp invincibility 3 frame, 120 dmg, recovery 8 frame; Ryu’s inv 2 fr, 100 dmg, rec 10 frame; ken mp dp inv. 6 fr, 150 dmg, rec 14 fr; Ryu mp dp inv. 5 fr, 130 dmg, rec 18 fr, ken hp dp inv. 4 fr, 150 dmg(Ultra), rec 9 fr; Ryu hp dp inv. 4 fr 160 dmg, rec 18 fr. Ken ex dp 200 dmg rec 9 fr. Ryu ex dp 140 dmg, rec 18 fr.
Ken’s lp & dp do +20 dmg each, has +1 frame of invincibility each and 2(lp) 4(mp) frames of less recovery
Ken’s ex dp does 200 dmg (60 more than Ryu’s which is ridiculous) and recovers 100% faster (Ken in 9 fr & Ryu in 18)
At this point mp and ex are 4 frames starters but this is irrelevant because they give much more dmg (for anti air or punish) more than average invincibility (6 & 11 frames) and a lot less recovery; and in case you desperately need a 3 frame you could always use hp dp.
Now to the 1 you mention:
Ken hp dp:
has more range than Ryu’s, that’s why Ken after a +7 st far lp could easily connect for full dmg when Ryu will whiff.
it’s multi hit, which mean that will break other characters ex (balrog ex dash punch)
has 9 frame recovery (100% faster than Ryu which recovers in 18 fr)
could focus cancel out of it (Ryu can’t)
not only could focus cancel, will be the only (in Ultra) doing it after the 2nd hit which is broken because you could break armor and then cancel; Ryu will take the hit or if the other char. block can’t cancel either so will be punished hard.
in top of that will be doing 150 dmg in his 3 fr, multi hit, 2nd hit cancelable, 100% less recovery, more range dp.
LOL; I’ll trade the Ryu’s hp dp miserable 10 more dmg for any of the above.
In Ultra Ryu’s and Ken’s FB will do the same dmg so the only difference will be that Ryu recovers in 45 frames and Ken in 47; that is 2 frames (4%).
funny how you only list the things kens srk’s do better and not all the things they do worse
you also forgot to mention the fact that kens fireballs have longer startup and his ex is garbage
the point i was making is that ryu’s fireballs are better than kens in all aspects which is not the case for kens srk’s
im not gonna discuss this further because i dont feel like its worth it
balancing isnt supposed to be done by saying this characters tool should be better than that characters tool
[quote=“TrueSephiroth;8614791” His jumping mp sounds really interesting and although their are some here who state that someone such like Daigo doesn’t use jumping mp so they don’t see how it’ll be effective.
First off, their was no real reason to utilize jumping mp now, however in Ultra with the option to cancel into hurricane kick may potentially change the game. Remember that back in Super Turbo before it’s release, Dictator had the jumping mp change in which Many felt it wouldn’t have any viability…ST comes out out…and…they were wrong, it became one of his best air attacks.
Not saying that Ultra Ryu jumping mp cancel into tatsu is going to be to that level, however we’ll have to wait and see. To me it’s simply not the potential damage but I’m curious of the possible setups afterward.
[/quote]
I main Gouken, who already has that j.MP x j.TATSU option. But using it on reaction is only really viable against chars with high jump arcs, e.g. Chun or against demon flips and high jumps or vs. obvious jumps (which are rarily seen by better players). But Gouken’s j.MP starts up in 4 frames, Ryus in 7 frames (plus at least the four pre-jump frames) , i.e. Gouken’s is noteworthy better. I main both chars, but I feel the j.MP as reactionary anti air works so much better for Gouken than Ryu due to start up. Therfore I would not put much hope in this. But, imo, it will be interesting if j.MP x j.TATSU will still work after reversal or anti air SRK x FADC for noteworthy more DMG in standard situations… Qny news on that? Confirmed in the test build?
Have you ever played Ken or are you just reading the frame data?
Ken’s dps aren’t better at all. It’s harder to anti air with them all and he can be safe jumped. Hp dp isn’t a good option to deal with safe jumps. It travels so far forward that a character jumping in hits him in the back of the head. The only jump ins you can AA with that dp are max range jump ins. Like, It’ll blow up Ryu jumping in to hit with the tip of j.hk. It’s better for frame traps because you can block confirm, but they’re taking block confirm out of the game completely, and right now Ryu can still block confirm his EX dp.
Nah, Ken’s medium dp is good. My brother plays Ken and I personally can tell you that as long as your feet are not on the ground, you are gonna eat the D. There are 4 frame safe jump set ups, but they don’t really help Ryu. All the 4 frame set ups are awkward and don’t put you close enough or don’t have enough hitstun. Cross up set ups aren’t worth it if the Ken you are fighting can consistently perform delayed dp so they face the proper direction. Your only option is empty jump block late tech, which is the same option for ryu against his dp…
Take a look at what I was arguing against. I wasn’t saying it’s bad, just that Ken’s dps aren’t better than Ryu’s. Ryu’s are better. The guy was obviously just comparing frame data. There’s a lot more to which dp is better than startup and invincibility.
Multi hit dps will only be cancelable on the first hit. Might be able to cancel ex versions on the second hit. No link. Just something I read from people who have played loc test versions. It makes sense. People have been complaining about that shit since vanilla. There, you could block confirm a one hit dp. lol
O, OK…
I thought you meant that DPs were going to be like Oni’s. As for the one hit cancel, I’ve gotten used to it already and I can confirm a hit or blocked MP DP into ultra or back dash. I’m sure the many much better players will not have much of a hard time readjusting. Thx…
It’s got nothing to do with that. I don’t think they’re changing EX moves, but like with Ryu. You do ex dp, cuz you want to land a dp, but be safe if it’s blocked. See that it’s blocked, you cancel after the second hit and you’re safe. Ken and Akuma won’t be able to do that with their normal dps anymore.
Ken’s dps have better juggle properties, have better range and are easier to combo into, you can hit confirm into a kara dp after 4 jabs. Ken also has setups after his hp shoryuken and against certain characters after lp dp you get a free cross up lk tatsu. His mp dp has more invincibility than all of Ryu’s non-ex dps, in USF4 it will be useful because you won’t have 2nd hit whiffing anymore, therefore it can be used as a reversal. Not to mention you can kara dp to punish backdash and it very useful as an offensive tool.
With the buff to Ken’s mp shoryuken I wouldn’t say that Ryu is going to have a better dp.