-- Weightlifting & Nutrition Thread -- v9.0 Optimized

There is no reason to assume that elevated heart rate in an otherwise healthy individual is any reason for concern. Merely becoming more cardiovascularly fit will decrease your resting heartrate, so do you think any increase is some catastrophic side effect? As long as your elevated heart rate is within normal limits then you are perfectly fine. A 5 BPM increase in pulse is of no consequence to someone who is not near borderline levels anyway. There have been NO documented cases of ephedra causing anything approaching death in healthy individuals taking recommended dosages. Do you take OTC allergy medication? Surprise basically all of them contain ephedra/alkaloids that have the same effect on heart rate. Unless you raise basal metabolic levels your going to have hell getting below a certain BF level.

Its painfully obvious that you can’t provide any reason not to take fat burners. Again who said everyone should take fat burners? I said they would become necessary as your body approaches plateau points, which are a physiological fact. You called me an idiot. I said provide me with one reason to consider them unfsafe if taken correctly, you called me an idiot. I have stated that diet and cardio are the keys, yet you act like I’m saying they are unimportant. You compare ECA stacks and the like to cocaine.

The challenge still stands, give me one reason fat burners aren’t safe if taken as directed by healthy individuals. One. And heres a hint, don’t use google or whatever to find some medical terminology and think its going over my head.

I already went over your head, then you tried to use words like ā€œargumentā€ which you couldn’t even spell. Then you expect me or anyone else to take the advice or information from someone who can’t spell an otherwise common everyday word. Come now.

Then lets take a look at this statement shall we ā€œThere have been NO documented cases of ephedra causing anything approaching death in healthy individuals taking recommended dosagesā€ā€¦Well thats reassuring. I say they’re not HEALTHY and unsafe, you begin talking about life and death. HAHAHAHA what does that tell you.

Oh and you may wanna use GOOGLE before you come on here making up facts.

Just some reads for ya chiefton.

http://www.ultimatefatburner.com/supplements/xenadrine-rfa1-review.html

http://www.annecollins.com/lose_weight/fat-burners.htm

And I also happen to love this title from CBS NEWS

Owned twice in one day.

Ephedra didn’t kill the pitcher. It even said in the article he had other medical problems.

Ephedra is safe to take in the reccomended doseages, as with steroids. Congress overhypes things like this in order for it to get banned. Ephedra is safe if you don’t already have underlying health problems. The only problem with these drugs is they can be fatal is they’re abused. Taken properly they’re safe.

Wow. I type these things as fast as I can and don’t go through them with spell checker, and thats your best ammo. Whenever someone goes to spelling its obvious they have no real factual basis to their claims. All you have is some overhyped idiocy about the ephedra ban, the exact kind of pseudoscience I was talking about. So now everything we read on the news is safe? LMAO.

You are a product of a culture that believes everything it reads yet is to lazy for the hard work of information gathering to understand an issue. Nothing you have presented is in the least bit scientific, its from chicken little websites with 40 year old women piling on the issue of the day without the slightest bit of an idea about what they speak. Face it you can’t argue the issue intelligently so you run off and google stuff and put it in here, but nothing is from a reputed scientific or medical source.

As for ephedra killing that pitcher, he and his family should go to hell. He was 20-30 pounds over his last years playing weight, he was taking 3-4 times dosages recommended and he was wearing rubber weight loss gear while exercising. That is him commiting suicide, not ephedra killing him.

Also now the two people who post the most in here intelligently have shot you down, and I’m sure Magnus will be along shortly to pile on you dipshit.

Dude, I hope no one lays you out an eating plan to gain weight.

I do that shit for a living and it’s $100 a person.

Yeah man, those chicken little websites like CBS NEWS, they have no idea what they’re talking about :rolleyes:.

You take weight loss pills and be a lazy whiny shit, and I’ll do it the natural healthy way. Theres no point in arguing any further. You can google your shit for days. ā€œephedra deathā€ is a classic one. I could pull up 50 other websites that tells you ephedra is no good for you. But you’re right, lets all rely on the knowledge of ā€œChaosā€ from Alabama, than a broken down wannabe news station like CBS :wink:.

Find peer reviewed medical journals or studies that say ephedra is unsafe for usage by healthy individuals or shut up. You don’t know the difference between ā€œnewsā€ and ā€œfactā€. They are vastly different. The people writing these articles have no scientific qualifications, they are journalists who pick up whatever the hell is the hot button issue and run with it. The ONLY acceptable evidence to argue a point is a peer reviewed medical journal or scientific study. Not whatever propoganda the news people report. Open your fucking eyes and investigate the issue factually not by whatever your computer spits out. Editorial columns are not evidence, I can find tons of editorials that believe in UFO’s and bigfoot.

Just who the hell are you anyway? What percentage bodyfat have you been at? What is your height/weight? How old are you? As far as I know your 150 lb. moron posting behind internet obscurity. I have been seen by dozens of people on this board who will attest that I’m a decently sized guy and have had many discussions on this board which prove that I’m in the know about diet and nutrition. Romie and I have discussed matters in this thread and the old one many times. Could you even follow the discussion of Magnus and I about PCT? You have no credentials and no crediblity period. If you doubted me listen to romie.

Unless you step up to the plate with legitimate information I’m through with you. All these ā€œephedra deathsā€ you refer to are a result of either

  1. Product misuse (overdosing or using with blatantly defined pre-existing conditions)
  2. Usage by individuals on other substances as well which make cause of death far from an open and shut case
    or
  3. Useage by people who were obese to begin with which is already killing their hearts.

Find some acceptable cases that don’t meet this criteria and you have grounds for discussion. Quoting internet websites for truth is the epitomy of ineffectual debate. OH and btw almost all fat burners are ephedra free these days as it has been banned, so your entire arguement about ephedra is pointless you idiot. But you knew that already. Know what ephedrine is? HCL? Get a clue you arrogant prick and engage reality.

I’m too lazy to read all that crap. So until you post up some information saying its 100% safe, shut your fuckin mouth.

Come up with studies saying it isn’t safe.

In Utah the ban on ephedra was lifted because the government couldn’t prove that it was a direct cause related to the deaths of athletes.

I doubt you could do better than the government.

I am looking for a GOOD TASTING protein shake. Anyone have any suggestions? I used to use Grow! by Biotest but they do not produce it any more. I am almost through with my last container so I need an alternative. I am not interested in a shake that facilitates weight loss as I have no trouble losing weight. I’m one of those ā€œluckyā€ people that has a hard time gaining anything.

Chaos is my hero

I started looking into muscle milk, but the fat content in it is through the roof! I’m wondering what good, widely avaliable protein powders are there that have a low fat content?

To both questions, Isopure. Look into their flavors.

What do liquid egg whites taste like? I heard they are tasteless and I can add them to my milk. If thats true, im probably gonna substitute these in instead of protein shakes.

Hey can someone offer advice for what to eat throughout the day while I’m at work? I’m in shape (not in peak physical condition but yeah), but I’d like to add some mass for all the time I’m gonna spend on the beach later this year… my workout scheme is not bad but I’d say my biggest weakness is my inconsistent diet… it was only recently that I found a whey protien shake that didn’t destroy my lactose-intolerant stomach, and I really don’t eat as frequently as I should… anyway here’s what I have planned so far but it’s pretty rough:

7:30-- Scrambled eggs, oatmeal, fruits
9:00 or so-- Shake (30g of whey)
10-ish–Shake
Lunch at 11:00–Something with chicken breast or tuna in it
1:30 or 2:00-- Shake
After work-- Creatine + fruit juice
After workout-- Post-workout shake
Dinner-- Some kind of dinner… I dunno, I don’t really eat a lot at worknights, so I’m usually good with a sandwich wrap
before bed–shake

Oh and I weigh 180 lbs

What else can I add to this? What else can I eat for lunch or dinner?

CHAOS

My PCT just involved nolvadex this go around, I couldn’t get my hands on any HCG this time but next time PCT will involve Nolv, HCG, Aromasin (steroidal aromatise inhibitor, and isn’t made less effective when used in conjunction with Nolv post cycle) and Vitamin E (yes vitamin fuckin E)

I gained a little over 20 pounds this cycle and only lost 6 post cycle…I’m now around 5 weeks out too so I think I’ll hold this weight easily until the next cycle…this cycle was relatively low dosed and prolly a poor choice of compounds and pct was a little lax so in light of everything I’m quite satisfied with the results…

As of today I put an inch on both arms, calves and neck, and 2 inches on my chest and thighs…waist stayed exactly the same, very pleased with that…

and of course since I took a conservative, educated approach to this cycle there were in fact…NO SIDES.

I’ll post a link to the article on PCT at the bottom but this is what I’m going to do for my next PCT and I’ll explain why.

Starting 1 week after the last injection:
Nolv: 20mg/day
Aromasin: 20mg/day
HCG: 500 IU’s/day
Vitamin E: 1000IU’s/day

Alright supposedly megadosing on Nolv does absolutely nothing…they found 20mgs/day to be the most a person needs and any more than that just doesn’t do anything else except increase the risk of sides, for those of you that don’t know nolvadex is a weak estrogen that competes for space at receptor sites to keep free floating estrogen from causing unwanted, estrogen related side effects post cycle and also promotes the natural production of testosterone by way of HPTA recovery…nolvadex IS superior to clomid

aromasin is a AI that isn’t made less effective when used in conjunction with nolvadex post cycle and prevents the conversion of roughly 60-85% of androgens to estrogen…leaving enough estrogen in the body because some estrogen is needed for healthy joints among other things…aromasin also promotes natural test production.

HCG mimics LH which is what tells the leudig cells in the testes to produce testosterone and by flooding the body with this post cycle you will not only increase natural test levels more quickly but also cause a quicker return of size in the atrophied testes.

Vitamin E supposedly works in conjunction with HCG…allowing you to use slightly higher doses (500 iu’s daily as opposed to 300 iu’s) Leudig cell desensitization WAS addressed in the article which leads me to believe that the recommended dosages would in fact not be too much.

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?t=58630

And chaos is in medical school as well and knows his shit like no other.

And the word ā€œsafeā€ is a relative term…How many people die in car wrecks daily?? Have they banned driving??

and another thing…IF YOU HAVE NEVER DONE A CYCLE AND ONLY KNOW WHAT YOU SAW ON MTV AND WHAT YOUR FRIENDS TOLD YOU…then shut the fuck up. Because you know nothing and have no means of carrying an intelligent conversation in relation to gear or pct.

HAHA you’re a pussy, you can’t get big without cheating.

Are you serious?? What kind of ignorant kid are you?? I plan to go pro in the next two years so you can suck my ass. I’m not some child who wants to look good in a sleeveless shirt, this is my career and my passion here.

Anyone who refers to gear as ā€œcheatingā€ is completely ignorant on the subject and falls under the ā€œI shouldn’t post because I don’t know what the fuck I’m talking aboutā€ category…

HAHAHAHAHAHA POST OF THE YEAR, you wanna go pro, and you can’t even put together a decent post cycle treatment. Keep dreaming there chiefton.

And what would you recommend?? Seriously…I’m always open to new suggestions as we are all still learning…so enlighten us and provide links to research studies and/or medical journals…

FYI, pro’s don’t cycle off…maintenance doses is good enough for them…most get blood work done every six weeks…I have quoted some pro’s as saying more than 4 weeks off is too much and placed no emphasis on PCT.

Chaos, back me up here…you have seen me and how far I’ve come in just this past year alone…