probably because jump hk works just as well if you time it right, and does more damage, but I agree it’s a really good air to air, it reminds me of sakura’s jump mp
Do you guys use cl.HK or cr.HP to AA when someone neutral jump straight in your face ?
I’d like to add.
Cr. Lp, cl.st.lk, Cr. Hp xx Hp/ex Rekka
The trick with this combo is to chain the Cr. Lp and St. Lk together and not link them so that you can get better range on the cl.st.lk
Cr.lp, Cr. Lp, St. Mk xx mp Rekka
I would also use cl.hk over cl. Hp for the extra damage. Only thing cl.hp has over cl.hk is to link into ex lmt.
For frame traps poison isn’t like the conventional character for them. For poison you are going to want to use her ex lmt, ex fb, hp fb and mp fb to get the advantage. EX lmt and ex fb are +2, hp fb is like really advantageous like +6 and up. And mp fb is at least 0 so it’s even. Cr.lp is +1 so not to much there but it’s something.
So for poison she has many ways to get her opponent to the ground (both throws, lmt, rekkas, sweep, ultra 1) and all these options have set ups where you can land a meaty hp fb which usually opens your opponent up for either a cr.mk canceled into another lmt or a fireball or Rekka, or you can do an overhead which you can link into a jab into another knock down. So she has meaty mix ups that she can reset back into with.
Example
Forward throw, whiff a St. Lp, hp fb
This is a safe option that covers both dwu or regular wake up. You can now either block if you feel a mashed dp is coming, or go for a mix up.
Let’s say we go for a low mix up. So after the hp fb hits we do cr.mk
If they tried stand blocking the fb and thought we would do an overhead, cancel the cr.mk into either ex or mp rekkas. Now we push the opponent into the corner more and we can continue the pressure with an immediate back dash and hp fb. And we rinse and repeat again.
Back to the example. Let’s say we went cr.mk and they blocked the meaty hp fb low, one option is to cancel the cr.mk into ex lmt.
Now this isn’t a true block string but it isn’t reactable to punish between, but because it isn’t a block string if the opponent presses a button or a jump or a back dash or focus/armored move then your going to catch them for 200 damage into another hard knockdown to rinse and repeat. If they block then you are right in there face with +2 advantage. They can only mash out an invincible reversal in between but they would have to be mashing that during the cr.mk because it is quick. Now let’s say they do like to mash reversal during these trap set ups just block or cancel into an ex fb and utilize that +2 on block
or mp/hp fb depending on spacing, the reversal may Whiff through or get hit by the fireball.
Trying to learn how to use AE in my combos. What are her best combos involving non and EX?
If you cancel the first hit of close HK into ex or mp fb you are very close to continue the combo. You are +4 on ex and +3 on mp. You can follow up with cr. Lp, St. Lk, cr.hp xx Rekka.
You could also do both hits of cl.hk for the added stun and damage and do Cr.lp, St. Mk xx mp or ex Rekka.
So for example
J.hk, cl.hk(x2) xx mp fb, cr.lp, St. Mk xx mp Rekka does very good damage and stun for 0 bars. You can change mp fb for ex for added damage and combo leniency.
Or
J.hk, cl.hk (1 hit) xx ex fb, St. Lk, cl.hk (x2) xx Rekka
Go to training mode and mess around, but continuing combos from her fb usually need the corner
jump mp straight up loses to head stomps which tells me that hitbox is no where near as good as how that move looks.
Fuck j.mp, jump back hk actually beats stuff
I don’t know if this has been posted before so apologies if so.
Very easy ambiguous safe jump/cross up set up.
Back throw, immediate forward jumping lk.
To never mess the timing, hold up+forward during the throw so your immediate jump in comes out every time.
Works on: decapre, ryu, Honda, makoto, dudley, gen, sakura, Elena, juri, chun, sim, viper, bison ,Cody, e.ryu, guile, Vega, Adon, rose, yang, Hugo
Somewhat works: ken, yun, cammy, deejay, poison, blanka, rufus, balrog, el feurte
- Ken: Lp dp trades but whiffs all other dps
- yun: only beats hk/mk dp, lk/ex wins clean
- cammy: whiffs dp but gets away
- deejay: loses to up kicks, beats ex upper
- poison: beats mk, hk, ex dp, loses to lk dp
- blanka: ex up ball whiffs, beats electricity and regular balls, loses to u1
- rufus: ex messiah gets blocked. Wake up ultra hits you
- balrog: headbutt whiffs. ex rush punch will beat you.
- el feurte: ex dp whiffs, ex run can escape
Doesn’t work on: Seth, gouken, akuma, Dan, oni, Abel, sagat, guy, rolento, zangeif, fei long, t.hawk, anyone who delays their wake up.
- Hakan actually gets up a tad slower causing this set up to whiff entirely. So you can make his u2 whiff but he can punish you otherwise.
** this was only tested mid screen. Corner doesn’t apply
You got to be at the tip of the whip for it to not trade.
I generally don’t use j.mp for air to air, though it seems to have the longest horizontal range of her jumping attacks (only 2 active frames though booo). I find it useful when jumping in on a far away opponent where j.hk won’t reach, her j.mp done near the end of the jump will sometimes catch the opponent.
@amrraed Definitely cl. HK. Higher hitbox, 2 more active frames. Puny damage, but it gets them off you.
Had a lot of trouble with Yun today. Granted, I don’t have a great base in fighting Yun in the first place, since I’ve only been playing six months (Ultra for three weeks)…
Divekicks fall really fast to me. Trying to AA them is really hard, I just don’t have the active frames. Three-button tech (LP+LK+HP) seems ineffective.
If I jump at him for air-to-air sometimes he recovers faster than me.
If I use stand jab to knock him out of the divekicks, he can just use regular j. HK or whatever… it ends up being that he can do whatever he wants.
One divekick combo and I’m in the corner. Getting out seems really hard. He can neutral jump ill-placed red focus, counterpoking with cr. MP is difficult- I feel like he can hit me for a lot at poke distance, while I can’t even get cr. MP xx LP AE.
His neutral jump seems shorter compared to other characters. If you’re going for AA U1 it’s like you have to flash him on the way up.
It feels like to succeed, I have to make some godlike reads for subpar damage while he can just press buttons and make reads later when that doesn’t work.
Also, regarding HP AE; What do you think is the best way to get people to land on it? Since the projectile is in front of you, people will just jump over it… I’ve had some success by displacing myself walking backwards and then throwing it, but it seems that the majority of my air hits come from people seriously misjudging their jump-in spacing.
i’d honestly just jumpback j.mp/j.hk if jab doesn’t cut it. Because there are times jab won’t cut it.
reset the position and walk them back down rather than stand there hoping to jab a dive kick, miss, be down in health, pushed towards the corner, and forced to guess on your wakeup. If they see you can do solid air to air reads, they’ll hesitate a bit before aimlessly doing it again. At least enough for you to walk them down.
Also Ibuki is pretty rough for Poison. It’s even worse when she has meter. You can’t play a reliable fireball game because she has options to get around it. (slide, floaty jump with decent options coming down, EX neckbreaker, U2.)
Poison has to either block or focus kunai vortex. DP loses to kunai (cause lolshitDP). Maybe backflip but since it’s so nerfed in this game, it’s not really an option.
Once you’re cornered, you pretty much have to make reads and take risk with far short and crouch short. Red focus out if you have meter (because snap kicks pressure will come.) But Poison without meter? It’s a lot of blocking and hoping.
Yep so far every single character that can change their jump arc is a pretty rough match up. I know this has been said before but after facing my first real Bison player today, that match up feel very very awkward. I was able to clutch it out many times and won the set but it didn’t feel convincing once.I saw @tali say that cr.MP could could do well in a scissors kick pressure situation but i couldn’t get it to work very much.
I wish Poison had any sort of a corner escape option, If she is to get a buff that would be very high on my list.
No doubt bison is a harder match up for poison. After a blocked scissor I have found some success with cr.mp beating St. Hk, which then allows me to be able to jump once the bison stops throwing out the Hk after the scissor.
My issue was that it was losing to another scissors kick after blocking the first one, I was just clutched it out with occasional jumps or ex AE or backdashes if i wasn’t cornered afterwards . Good to know that it beats his St.HK. I would definitely test this out.
Don’t forget about delayed wakeup and her back-flip. If they time the crossup right and this goes for pretty much any character her back-flip will auto-correct her out of the situation. Also, mistimed kunai mixups and you backflip you completely escape the situation and her options for covering it.
How do people feel about saving meter for EX LMT in blockstrings? I know @tali has mentioned it multiple times beforehand.
I would say that divekick (and other characters) get +frames in blockstrings for free. But, then again, they don’t have projectiles. (E. Ryu and Akuma still have to “aim” their divekicks for + frames and it’s slower than our EX LMT.)
Instinctively, it feels like a waste of meter just to spend it without hitting anything. But, I guess it’s better than wasting meter on EX AE that people just jump over anyway.
Maybe letting your opponent throw or interrupt you once or twice out of regular LMT would increase EX LMT’s effectiveness, perhaps?
They can jump out of EX LMT, but… if they forward jump, they should just sail right over you instead of getting a jump-in attack or crossup (since you are moving forward as well). If they back jump, they push themselves into the corner, and if they neutral jump, that’s what not canceling and using U1 instead is for, right?
Speaking of which, meter usage… From most important to least important, how do you think these rank?
Raw Red Focus
EX WoL (long-range punishes, a whiff punish? resets in combos)
EX LMT (blockstrings, 1/3rd screen projectile invincibility)
EX KBG (reversals… don’t really trust it as anti-air)
EX KBG FADC
EX AE (corner pressure, resetting fireball wars, vanilla focus breaker) - I burn my meter on this all the time, but at 100 damage with no knockdown I think it may be a waste outside of the corner. (st. HP does the same thing for only a small speed trade…)
Raw punish/WoLx2 hit-confirm Super (I use this a lot to catch a quick life lead)
cr. MK xx LP AE FADC (range on this is pretty poor, even on CH. Confirmable on reaction but I feel like your read has to be great, whereas E. Ryu can just throw his out without thinking.)
KBG FADC U1 combos as misc. punishes (jump-in KBG FADC, jab confirm KBG FADC, etc.)
WoL xx Red Focus pretty much has to be paired with U2, or you’ll completely screw yourself on the scaling. And U2 is not so easy to use, not even as a punisher… so I left it out of the list.
backflip can backfire on you in certain setups where it leave you closer to the opponent and you get punished really badly.
my idea is delay wakeup to force a kunai mixup and focus backdash if you really don’t want to block.
My ranking on meter usage would be something like this:
EX AE in a corner pressure situation is probably the best usage of meter. It is in general a really good move.
EX WoL is great for corner carry and you still get reset after it.
EX LMT (I am a supporter of cl.HP XX Ex LMT. It is easy does good damage and you get a hard knockdown after it)
KBG FADC U1.
EX KBG is probably the least one i use.
I don’t see the point in using Ex. red focus at all.
Idk if I would rank it. For me if it calls for that in the situation then I’ll do it.
Ex lmt in block strings is great. Regular as well if the opponent has a a 4 frame jab/short, or for just gouging how they react to being that close to you when you are on the offense. Do they dp? Do they grab, do they just block? Etc.
So let’s say they like to throw you after lmt or mash cr.tech with a three frame short, then you know that you have a free set up into dp fadc ultra. I do this trap all the time if I need it. Let’s say I zone and build meter and lame out r1. I then go in a bit more round 2, and gauged my opponents reaction after blocked lmt, and let’s just say it’s bison who mashes cr.tech into scissors. Now that ive gauged that, fast forward, Let’s say I have 20% life and he has like 40%, let’s say I got forward throw on him, I throw a meaty hp fb, cr.mk xx lmt all blocked, bison is going for his cr.tech, I mash a mk dp fadc u1, game over.
Or simple one, if they press buttons/throw after blocked lmt, then next block string do an ex lmt instead, you know your crjab or St. Mk w.e is going to counter hit into a free combo.
Or if you want to be ballsy then after lmt go for mk dp and beat out almost anything they could of done other then blocking.
After lmt it’s in our favor so much to dictate the match flow. Especially considering lmt just keeps pushing the opponent forward. And if you hit it? Free knockdown into meaty hp fb high/low mix up again
Personally I feel that there isn’t a downside to throwing it out. If it hits we move forward and I knock you down for 190-220 damage. If it’s blocked worse I’m -1 on a regular one, and I still push you forward and get to gauge your reactions and thinking. And if it’s ex I’m at the advantage. If you focus or dash or jump back or forward in between the canceled normal it almost always catch them. And if they reversal in between, sometimes the damage is neglible due to not all hits landing. Like ex dp from ryu getting only the second hit. And if you are crafty, you can cancel the normal into back flip to bait something.