"We finished practicing now?" Cody Match-up Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
1601

Input screwup. An incredibly annoyingly easy input screwup but input screwup none the less.

The thing is that knife pick up works on Down / Down Forward / Down Back + 3P and it only works on press (no negative edge). EX Criminal Upper works on Negative Edge so that is why you get that sometimes because it remembers your input of QCB + Punch and then the cancel kicks in for the knife pick up (You effectively were buffering knife pick up - EX Criminal Upper just like crLK - MK Ruffian works.)

However Ultra 2 requires SPECIFICALLY a strict input of “Back” for the final input of the move. No back + down is allowed. So while Ultra 2 is a higher priority move on the move list you didn’t actually input it correctly so you get Knife Pickup. Had you done it NOT on top of the knife it likely would have worked because you would have negative edged it on the proper directional input of “Back” even if you pressred 3P when you were on “Down Back”

if that makes sense.

1602


trying to master option selecting against Sim

1603

Always nice to see Sim getting steam-rolled. For future reference EX Rocks c.hp xx hCU is a waste of meter if they’re stunned because nj.hp c.hp xx hCU does the same damange/stun meterless.

1604

What is the ideal OS for Vega? between his backdash, his two different flips, etc…not sure what to go with.

1605

Off back throw, mk ruffian? I haven’t tested it but even if he backflips you should recover before him to punish? not sure…

1606

@GrabMasterFlex @Ramma

If he does the 3P backflip you recover plenty in time to punish, if he did the 3K backflip he recovers first (Backthrow is a 5F safe jump so: 1F air time + 3F landing recovery needs to be added to the OS frame count. This means that FJ HK - OS MK Ruffian has a total frame count of 44F (Since MK Ruffian is 40F on it’s own.)

3K backflip = 42F total meaning Vega recovers 2F sooner than you. Did some testing and checked a video recording frame by frame and can verify this is correct. (Recorded Cody doing back throw - FJ HK OS MK Ruffian - Hold up for ~ 3seconds after doing the OS since the OS wont come out during the recording. Then play as Vega, do reversal timing 3K Flip while holding up, check the video and see who jumps first and by how many frames.)

As Cody is -2F in that situation he is actually at a disadvantage but neither player can “punish” each other though you need to jump or do EX CU IMMEDIATELY otherwise Vega can throw you.

1607

@GrabMasterFlex @Eternal

Yeah MK Ruffian catches back dash well. I think you can recover in time to catch PPP, but you’re at a disadvantage with KKK, so it’s not a good OS for him I think. And if Vega knows this, and you

Also, I don’t think Vega can do 3K or 3P off a safe jump. Might be wrong though.

Kinda the best thing I have set up is to always OS sweep. It’s not perfect but.

Vega is down:

  1. Backdash: OS Sweep (catches him recovering)
  2. PPP Flip: OS Sweep (whiffs), react to it with LK Ruffian (catches him recovering)
  3. KKK Flip: OS Sweep (whiffs), react to it with LK xx Criminal (can catch him recovering, but I don’t have consistent results. I think the cr. LK might be a 1 frame punish).

Didn’t know if there was something better than this. Maybe the key is Crack Kick like it is with Akuma? I can’t test now because I’m at work.

1608

@Ramma He can do flip on wakeup, the timing seems kind of hard for some reason but you can do it. As I said I actually tested Back throw - FJ HK OS MK Ruffian to make sure my math was correct and that means I actually did the flip as a reversal.

1609

Little piece of tech I dunno if is known but I just discovered it to be useful to some extent:

Cody’s U2 and Criminal Upper can be used to negate Rose’s orbs even if she blocks them. I mean it seems obvious now that I think about it but I never considered it before. It’s especially useful with Criminal Upper if she has only 1 orb left, force her to block any CU (works best with MP/HP obviously) and the tornado will eat up the other orb while she is blocking it.

1610

I fought an Adon player last night multiple matches and i became aware of how lacking in experience i was against this character(one of many honestly xD)

Main problems were dealing with jaguar kick and jaguar tooth, knockdown pressure.

Jaguar kick
I’ve fought about 15 matches so i got to experiment with what worked or not. Most effective tactic i found was using zonk on reaction to completely beat the jaguar kick, it worked great. the kick completely whiffs and the zonk gives a hard knockdown, ideal. Though i din’t have it charged all the time. The other was a pre-emptive jump back lp, great angle and hitbox to challenge the jaguar kick, but due to how Adon can alter his timings this will only work a handfull of times.

Other tactic i used was cr.mk to go under his jaguar kick, but the Adon player could also jump forward an with his short jump arc he actuall gets me at the end of the slide :confused: sometimes i get hit and sometimes i can block it still putting me in the same exact situation. I’ve used U1 on reaction also but that is not a tactic that i can rely on.

Jaguar Tooth
Neutral jumping this attack doesn’t work, especially with the hk version, he goes under me… and jump back hk doesn’t seem to do the trick either.
sometimes i challenged it with a st.lp which seemed to beat it out but not sure how viable that is. His ex version on block to my surprise is actually -5! I’ve had given up on pressing any button after that move as i thought it was -1 or 2 lol. But i can actually punish it… i’ll practice it in training.

Tried to aa it with hk.ruffian but ofcourse he doesn’t always do the hk version. Haven’t tried using b.mp on it, don’t know why exactly, thought it was too dangerous but maybe i’ll have to get the proper timing down. Don’t like using st.hk as it leaves me open if i mistime it.

Knockdown pressure
Okay, this is the scariest part for me. I kept getting hit, especially in the beginning with his very ambiguous jump in mk’s. Adon has such a short jump arc that it completely mindfucked me. Any setups i need to take note of to five away if he lands in front or the back, though i admit later on i got alot btter at blocking them. Seeing as he manually timed the jump ins pacing back and forth before jumping made it difficult.

His throw game is fucking scary also, throwteching feels very difficult, similar like throw teching against Akuma.

TL;DR
How do i deal with Jaguar Kick, Jaguar Tooth and his knockdown pressure.

1611

@LockM You are right, zonk is the best way to deal with jaguar kicks. If you watch Sasaki play, you can see that during pressure, he has Zonk charged, and if the adon player cancels, say cr.mp, into jaguar kick, Sasaki will do the zonk. Also during the neutral jump shennaningans (which btw can be beat by a VERY early b.mp) he keeps zonk locked and loaded for the jaguar kick, but always staying sharp regarding teching a throw.

Jaguar tooth is the same thing, zonk beats it clean. So does both Ultras, but it’s obviously very risky if he goes for the lk tooth.

Regarding this MU, you’re in for a really bad time during his knockdown pressure. You have to be on top of all your options, HK Ruffian, b.MP, Focus, backdash, EX Zonk and Tornado. You really need to capitalize your damage on his knockdowns, as his only option here is uppercutting.

1612

@LockM

Zonk isn’t a hard knockdown, it’s a techable knockdown.

If you look at the frame data for Jaguar Tooth it doesn’t tell all of the info. EX JT says it’s -5F but that is assuming it hits on the first active frame (like all frame data on the wiki). JT punishability varies depending on how high up on the body he hits you and how far from the wall he jumped from you are. For example, if you are in the corner and crouch blocking an EX Jaguar Tooth is only -2F.

Always try to block Jaguar Tooth standing because if he hits you higher up on the body he’ll be more negative. (Just like all dive kicks.)

As for Jaguar tooth counters, it might surprise you but Zonk works extremely well against it for some reason.

Also if your reactions are fast enough far HK will stuff it pretty much every time but you need to hit the button before he reaches the wall.

1613

I’ve been playing this character for 2 years and didn’t even know zonk was a soft knockdown! Damn.
Still the soft knockdown from the zonk is a good one either way.

To be honest never really analysed matchups to a t, i mostly have very general knowledge of them and go with the flow and play by experience…until i fight someone really good. Might need to turn a new leaf in how i approach this game haha.

Great tips Ostkatten and Eternal!
I practiced a bit in training mode and zonk works even better than i thought, you can really do it at the last possible second.
Practiced a bit with different AA’s against his non ex JT versions and as far as normals go b.mp and st.hk work great, with st.hk i rather use it if i’m a bit further away from opponent but it does it’s job pretty good. EX JT i can’t press st.hk anymore if he is at the wall, then i’m too late or it trades. B.mp does work and obviousely zonk beats everything. The jump back hk works if he wants to land where i’m standing atm an JT that goes further flies under, so it’s perfect when i’m close to the corner and Adon does a JT.

His JK i guess i can focus if it’s obvous if it’s done from the air, but might as well do zonk.
Slide seems to work well if it’s done early enough so you can even punish it but mostly glad to get away from the pressure.
Going to get some glue to hold that hp down lol.

1614

Guys, this is an issue that I’d like to address to the next iteration, but I think it might be too late. I play in a group called Individualists, or I for short, and in that group there is a Dan player called Ixion. The thing is, not sure if you people know it, but Dan is basically a 8-2 match-up for Cody. The reason? Lk Danku is + on block. If you crouch, lk danku xx far lk is a TRUE blockstring. So, if you get stuck in the corner, AFAIK, the round is over. Lk Danku shouldn’t be + on block, but with Cody’s hitbox, it is. Is there a way out from this nonsense, or should this maybe be brought to the attention of devs?

1615

Ok, before jumping on the “fix this devs train” why not examine the situation fully an see if there is an answer?

First off, how is he forcing you to block LK Danku? Is it canceled from from close MP/crMP/close HP/crHP? If the answer is yes then the solution is easy: None of these canceled to a LK Danku are a true block string. If you stand block any of these attacks you can release a zonk between the blocked normal and the LK Dan. The zonk hurtbox when fully charged is low enough that the Dankick whiffs and Cody hits Dan well before he can recover.

If you crouch blocked the normal canceled to Danku then the risk is even greater for Dan. The reason it is + is because Dan is hitting you on a later frame, this means that there is a larger gap between the blocked normal and Danku hitting you while crouched. As a matter of fact, for some reason if Dan does a close MP - LK Danku you can throw out a crLP or crMP or even a crHP and it will hit dan, not only that but for some reason it will cause Dan to be hit GROUNDED meaning: Full combo. If Dan does close HP/crHP then then it will hit dan airborne.

Then you have the wonderful trick of crMK. You can slide under all of these situations and put Dan in the corner instead.

Now let’s say you DO block both the normal and the LK Danku. Why are you blocking the Danku crouching instead of standing? If you ever see it coming block it standing to reduce frame advantage, none of Dan’s low hitting normals have enough hitstun to combo to Danku.

Now let’s say you block the normal and then block the Danku crouching. Far LK isn’t cancelable and leads to nothing. All you have to worry about is the normal “throw or DP” mixup from Dan you always have to worry about.

In my experience at neutral or in the corner, even doing crMK LATE it never gets hit by a LK Danku unless he did an IA LKDanku which can be focused. So slide under that shit. Hell, there is even a chance you’ll hit meaty enough to combo to crLK after!

1616

@ostkatten
I don’t have much Dan experience but whenever they go for the light dan kicks I just slide with cr mk, seems to work pretty well.

1617

Thanks @Eternal, there was some new information there for me. I’d still like to show you some of our replays so that you would understand that it’s not as simple. During the barrage of Dankus and normals, it’s honestly a bit too much to see from what normal the cancel happened. Also, when you mix up the distance from where Dan cancels, there is no one answer what to do. A Zonk whill whiff sometimes and Dan throws you back into the corner, sometimes the Danku counterhits your cr.mk -> Ultra 2 in the corner. Sometimes the cr.lp will indeed as you described make the LK Danku whiff, but most of the times it’ll just get beaten by the Danku.
EDIT: Also, this is all negated if he throws out a random or cancelled EX Danku, it’ll hit the cr.mk and a jab. It loses to a properly timed Zonk though. It’ll win if the normal cancel is spaced right.
EDIT2:If I block a cancelled lk danku standing, the situation is ±0. So my lp will trade. If I do a cr.lk, it’ll win, but so what? If I cancel it into a LP CU, and he blocks, I’ll get punished by far lp xx ex danku.

@GrabMasterFlex The problem is that if I do cr.mk after say a cr.lp xx LK Dankuyaku, I’m at a frame disadvantage. So the barrage continues.

1618

@ostkatten I’d def watch the replays if you posted em. Have you tried Cody’s far LP? It is also a 3F normal and it would leave you at advantage on block and it has almost but not quite as good of reach as crLK and unless you hit the far LP at absolute max range (or hit one of dan’s limbs or something.) you are usually in range to link to crLK and then you can hit confirm that to MK Ruffian to get yourself out of the corner.

As for the “keepin track of what normal he canceled” that isn’t important. I used those to show you that EVERY normal Dan has is not a true block string to hitting you with LK Danku if you are crouching. You don’t have to keep track of which one he uses unless you want to simply go for the maximum punish option.

As for the EX Danku, the speed of EX Danku works in Cody’s favor in this instance. ANY normal canceled to EX Danku is a TRUE block string (you can even block a light and then let the stick go to neutral and you’ll still block the EX Danku) this means you don’t have to worry about getting CH in these situations. It’s only if he is NOT canceling a normal to EX Danku that it’s be a frame trap and in most of these instances it is at best a 6F frame trap which means it’d lose to a well timed crLP.

Also, EX Danku if it hits on the first active frame is -3F on block. That means you can throw him into the corner with a back throw or do a crLK and punish (though the crLK is very hard to time as it’s a 1F punish)

1619

You can also stuff LK Tatsu with an OSed cr. MP depending on what he cancels from. But, cr. MK will generally get you out of trouble, and if you need to create space, start retreating with a back dash or kara back dash.

Cody handles Dan pretty soundly. He can zone him easily and Dan’s a bit easier to pressure than the other shotos. Sure Dan’s offense can be scary, but I find getting out of it to not be too troublesome. You have options to get out. I don’t really see where Dan puts up much fight to be honest.

And I mean, Ixion is the best Dan player I even know of tbh. Pretty sure Justin Wong’s Dan would beat most of us pretty easily lol.

1620

http://imgur.com/NmEHJ2I
Dash EX ruffian to punish lp yoga fire

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