"We finished practicing now?" Cody Match-up Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
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<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/29317/melovegames">melovegames</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>I disagree with Ramma, i feel like you should always be moving forward and blocking to push Guile in the corner. Once he’s there he can’t do a damn thing except hope a random flash kick hits. Also if the Guile is hitting forward+fierce (the backfist) a lot, just do cr. fierce buffered in whatever; the backfist whiffs on all crouchers.<div><br></div><div>Another quick tip quickie you can cr. lk xx tornado in-between the 2 hits of Guile’s sweep.</div></div>
</blockquote>

I agree that you should be inching your way in. I just think you should build some meter before even attempting. Guile’s options/spacing against a meterless Cody as opposed to a 1 bar Cody completely changes. Once Cody has a bar, Guile has to be cautious. No reason to get chipped a bunch trying to get in. Just how I see it.

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<br><blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/44452/Ramma">Ramma</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>Well, if he wants to play lame (which he will of course. He needs to keep Cody out like most matches), chuck rocks at him. He can’t match them. Once you have the meter, start inching your way in. If you get a life lead him and he wants to keep chucking plasma. Just keep throwing rocks. He’ll have to come to you eventually.<div><br></div><div>Wouldn’t recommend trying to zonk under his FBs for obvious reasons, but reacting to a sonic boom with EX Ruffian is easy enough. Once you have Guile knocked down, go to work as you normally would. Cross him up plenty of course. </div><div><br></div><div>It’s a pretty straight forward match vs a zoner.</div></div>
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<br>Unless you are throwing rocks as fast as possible Guile can match you, and if you aren’t the first one to throw a fireball you’re gonna have a hard time. HP Rock = 48F total. Guile only needs 50F to charge and if you just are throwing rocks back to back Guile can simply block one and then EX Boom the next one and counterhit you from full screen. Also at full/near full screen Guile’s hop kick can avoid MP or HP rocks at certain distances. <br><br>The problem is that even if you are throwing rocks as fast as possible Guile can simply block 1 and EX boom you for free on the next one. You have to actually mix up throwing and not throwing and that plays into guiles charge times better. Plus since EX Ruffian isn’t projectile invincible during startup EX Boom is pretty difficult to react to from anywhere but max distance. <br><br>That is my opinion on it though. I think that the match would be a lot less frustrating if it was possible to c.MK under LP booms.<br><br><blockquote class=“UserQuote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href=“http://forums.shoryuken.com/profile/15005/Hokuwokk”>Hokuwokk</a> wrote: <a href="“We finished practicing now?” Cody Match-up Thread" class=“QuoteLink”><span class=“ArrowLink”>»</span></a></div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>Any info about cody vs seth MU??</div>
</blockquote>Pray. It’s not as bad as Cody v Cammy but it’s a pain in the butt. Never ever ever get knocked down. Take an air reset over a UKD any day of the week imo.<br>

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3F “safe jump”<br><br>Any character that EX Ruffian will cause you to go under this works on:<br>EX Ruffian (goes under) - back dash - jump forward MK. It’s not a true safe jump as you wont actually hit them if they just block however if they do a reversal SRK you recover in time to block it point blank if they don’t do an reversal they aren’t even in block stun and you can just throw em or go for c.LK - Criminal upper. It’s a gimmick for sure but I think that the setup is ambiguous enough that it’s viable. Especially since the same setup with a s.LP after the backdash will result in an unblockable on certain characters, and the MK in the air will make the person think they can SRK you due to ground recovery frames.<br><br><br>

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@Eternal: Nah there’s no use. LOL

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Cammy only swag combo I found today Only works in the corner and is a little bit inconsistent but try it out in training mode and you’ll feel like a bad ass.

Counterhit s.HP - cls.HP - c.MP - HK Ruffian Kick - EX Ruffian Kick - EX Criminal Upper. 481 damage 780stun. 2bars only. The ch HP to cls HP link is using the reeling animation to manipulate close vs far normals that I discussed in the concept thread and posted a video of. You have to perform it as though it was a 1F link even though the ch cls.HP is +9F on hit and cls HP is 8F startup it must be performed as early as possible. The link that is inconsistent is the c.MP - HK Ruffian the c.MP ends up putting just at the very very maximum distance for HK Ruffian to connect and sometimes it just whiffs entirely.

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Guys, I’ve really had it with the Sagat match-up. Have any of you played any good Sagats? Is the match any better offline? For me, the match-up seems a lot harder than the Cammy, Adon or Akuma match-up, which I think is a bit against the mainstream of Cody players.

I’m going to list the things that I find makes this match hard, at least for me, and please, give me inputs on any of the following claims:

You can obviously not engage Sagat in a projectile competition. If you focus them, you can’t dash forward, he can punish that. Either with kara fireball, or cr.hp if close, just to name a couple. This means, that you have to get in either by jumping, or walking up to him. So, starting with this, the match is extremely much in his favour.

In my experience, you can’t react with EX Ruffian, because it doesn’t have enough start-up invincibility. You have to make a read. Costs one meter also. Brilliant.

In theory, you can use Ultra 2 and Zonk, but those options require extremely good reactions. Even though I have practiced my ass off, I can’t do it at all. I have more success in punishing his far HK.

Focus get’s blown up by far HK.

Standing throw plus a strange hitbox and a 3 frame jab, and uppercut, makes pressuring Sagat difficult, also, risk reward heavily on his side. I see no reason as to why the Sagat player would crouch-tech against Cody. Here f.HK’s potential airborne frames would be a very important tool, and would be very nice to see if there will ever be a update.

A friend of mine said that Cody is one of four characters that he feels Sagat can zone, along with Honda and the Grapplers. Thing is, Honda has the Ultra which punishes full screen fireballs. The grapplers have a hard time, but that’s the nature of the characters. If Cody had a command grab, like Honda and the grapplers, I would understand this.

Okay, I’m sure I’ll think of more, but these are just from the top of my head. Your input would be much appreciated!

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@ostkatten

Most of what you listed is true. However EX Ruffian actually has NO startup invinciblity at all. Projectile invulnerability starts on the same frame the hitbox becomes active. Plus 11F startup and goes only about half screen. Genius design since it’s also unsafe on whiff/block and can’t be FADCed :expressionless:

Anyways, c.MK to advance when he throws high tiger shots is good. Neutral Jump low tiger shots from outside of step kick range of course. I’ll show you a really dirty trick I found against Sagat:

(Fair warning, I didn’t really edit this as I just made it right before this post to show you. So its 2 1/2 minutes of me just doing the stuff to show how it works and doesn’t work and me fucking it up also.)

I dunno if this tech was known or not I expected it was so I never posted it. I came across it on my own though. I’ll put in some lab time to find other weird stuff against Sagat at some point. One thing to note is that there is a number of unblockables against Sagat if you do manage to get to him, this match you gotta make every knockdown COUNT because he has more health, faster normals (on average), better zoning, better wakeup, safe armor breaking options, and some really good hitboxes (especially compared to Cody’s rather large hurtboxes.) not to mention the ease of gaining meter and of landing either of his ultras.

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Yeah, I knew about the EX Ruffian properties, don’t know why I worded it that way :slight_smile:

The tech you posted has indeed been introduced here, by Packz, I believe. At least I’m certain I’ve seen it.

By the way, do you now of any good setups against Sagat on knock-down? The only one I know is the safe-jump setup from back-throw and the Momochi setup which makes an ambiguous cross-up. Which I also think can be auto-corrected, not sure though.

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I use cr.FP OS MK RK a lot (although, LK would probably be better as it gives safe jump and you don’t want to be far anyway).
It seems to work ok against his normals and fireball if you are at the right range. Downside is that it is slow of course.

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In the corner you can do lk.RK whiff a cr.lk and jump MK. Depending on the moment you press MK, it’ll either hit crossup or regular. Credit goes to Momochi.
Sasaki does cr.lp and jump HP after a throw in the corner.

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@ADN thanks, I’ll try those setups out.

@shinbojan you probably mean that you buffer a mk.rk from a cr.hp? The HP loses to sagats cr.hp, so cr.lp is a better choice to buffer from. I of course also utilize this, but even when using cr.lp, you still have to space it well.
You can check out Cody’s hitboxes here http://www.eventhubs.com/images/2011/sep/30/codys-hit-box-information-super-street-fighter-4-arcade-edition-image-1/ .

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Yeah it’s rather unfortunate how big Cody’s hurtboxes are on many of his moves. Esp his jumping attacks, far MK, cMK, cLK, and all his Ruffians (most notable his HK which is actually taller/wider than his normal standing hurtbox which defeats a ton of the purpose of an anti air)

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Wow. Just wow. I honestly am speechless at this level of stupidity from Capcom that I just discovered.

NONE of Cody’s crouching knife attacks are considered crouching. c.LP c.MP c.HP with knife ALL of them are considered “standing” for the purpose of character states during the entire duration of the attack. That means any attack that is tagged as “don’t hit crouching” (HK Ruffian Kick, bMP, crack kick, high tiger shot, guy’s bushin flip throw, Juri MK/HK Fireball, Guile’s back fist, ect ect ect) ALL will hit Cody while crouching and performing a knife normal.

Just when you thought the knife couldn’t get more useless. :expressionless:

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@ADN I can’t get that to work, or, it doesn’t matter when I time the jumping MK, it still crosses up.

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Yeah, It’s not that easy to get. If I remember well, you have to delay the j.mk. Too early or too deep is a cross up.You have to aim for right beneath the neck or something like that.

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Hmm. That sounds weird, since Sagat is barely getting up when you jump in. You can basically only hit his legs, because he is just getting up. Not even close to the neck, then it’s another timing I think.

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After lk.RK, cr.lk, jump forward, you should be on top of his head when he gets up.

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ADN, ok, I got it to work now, kind of. When I tried it out yesterday, I found out something pretty weird. It doesn’t work quite as you described it. Depending on when you press mk, determines if the jump-in becomes an un-blockable, or always-blockable. When I tried a couple of different timings, the most usual result was that it didn’t matter which way I blocked as Sagat, it still blocked. But sometimes, the jump-in was unblockable.

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Wow never assumed it could be unblockable good stuff!

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