Way to go, Jared Loughner: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords (D) shot in head

simply put, right wing maintains a lot of its power via religion. the christian right wing is very militant and can become quite emotional/irrational once the right buttons are pushed. any kind of violent rhetoric combined with religion easily stirs up the hornets nest. you’re right, its just a portion of the conservative base. not all are dumb. the ones at the top are actually quite smart and know exactly what they’re doing. that’s why they can continually dangle non-issues that are completely irrelevant, such as gay marriage and abortion, year after year, and their constituents will come out in droves to vote. you know, because the dirty liberals are destroying marriage and killing babies.

the violent right wing rhetoric is often framed in a religious context, and that’s a giant problem. if liberals try to incite violence who cares? their youth are too busy smoking pot and watching the daily show. whereas the right wing youth? just watch the documentary jesus camp. big difference.

so as for my statements being partisan, perhaps i am more liberal than conservative (however i do not vote nor am i affiliated with either party). i think my statements are more anti religious.

the problem in this country is that we’re too afraid to lock up crazy people. remember the vtech shooter? dude was mad fucking crazy, and people knew it. but he didn’t get locked up because no one wanted to take that responsibility. good job assholes.

That’s what I figure. Shootings like this one are perpetrated by people who probably showed early warning signs that were overlooked by friends and family. I guess if you really care about someone, you tend to rationalize their bizarre behaviors as somehow normal.

The guy who shot Dimebag Darrell was a known schizo. His mother knew he owned a gun, but didn’t think anything of it, even after his diagnosis.

Ok isn’t there some confirmation bias here? We only know about the disturbed individuals who exhibited early warning signs, that eventually DID go out and shoot people. How do we know there aren’t a large number of crazies out there who DONT kill people? i mean damn, i’ve some fucking crazy antisocial people in my life, who have some crazy worldviews (i frequent dive bars ok). If everyone started reporting antisocial behavior from their neighbors, there could be tons of false positives that police would have to sift through.

If anyone thinks the shooter was a consevative you need to walk outside, stick your head in a bathtub full of water and keep it there.

Seriously people, all evidence points to a disturbed individual who was a registered independent, anti religion, anti government, his favorite books where mein kampf and the communist manifesto, and he had some sort of infatuation with the congresswomen (he went to a rally in 2007 and even had a thank you letter for attending).

This man was fucked in the head.

Honestly if anyone has seen the movie Rampage, this guy reminds me of him.

Did you see how he looked? Head and eyebrows shaved. Some serious Taxi Driver simularities.

Ordinarily, I’d agree with you, but that would mean only dealing with perceived problems because we fear mass shootings, not because the people in question may simply need help that they’re not getting. If that increased awareness catches a potential Loughner, Gale, Chapman, Hinckley, or Bremer while their problems are still manageable, then so much the better.

A: Palin puts out a chart with gunsights
B: At that time, Giffords had expressed "[media=youtube]R7046bo92a4[/media]."
C: Giffords, whose office had been the victim of repeated violence, gets shot.

Palin didn’t pull the trigger, but I think a video that fades between “there are consequences” to this tragedy points out how brutish and distasteful the paramilitary rhetoric might be, regardless of source.
Don’t forget the whole “c’est ci n’est pas une gunsight” disclaimer now… ten months later.
The Young Turks seems to cover this fairly well.

Counterpoint:
If anyone else had created this same type of very public targeting and someone got shot regardless of reason, I think we’d be right to criticize them as well, regardless of party affiliation.

Perhaps I expect more of my leaders. Feel free to dredge up all sorts of stuff, and I’ll totally agree with you that the irrationality of modern debate drives good people away from being involved in the political arena. I’ve been involved with both politics and business on a national level and there are certainly assholes and we need better media and better leaders. No problems there.

The point is “calm down the rhetoric” not that “Palin destroying her career through this kind of stupidity is solving anything at all”.

Also the Malkin halftruths are a great example of shitty political discourse. Glossing over and twisting events to make them fit your agenda: disgusting.

As regards the Discovery channel thing: monkey-wrenching / Sea Shepherd etc… this is kind of a much older trend. Environmental negligence is getting a little more publicity, so you’re more likely to let the nutcases have something to fixate upon. Maybe when Leadership communicates plans better, works more on Kyoto and other attempts at rational non-advoidance response, we maybe give the citizenry less reason to go Jim Jones irrational.

But the political discourse in this country sucks. You’re pointing that out too: awesome, we’re on the same page. Let’s start “rational politics” by hiking taxes +20% or so. Perhaps that falling upon deaf ears is more a sign of a generation of bogus political rhetoric as opposed to it being a bad plan.

If the net net that comes out of this is better mental healthcare, I’ll be pleased. My dad’s a psychologist, and the Reagan-era NIMH reforms (link totally at random: it’s a very interesting subject) are certainly an interesting aspect of the past long while.
I mean, we instituted the social safety nets for a reason. We’ve been tearing them apart, but maybe just maybe there’s some reason, like not having 2nd Amendment enabled crazies roaming the streets, that we put them those safety nets there in the first place.

Blame the shooter, look at how we are as a society.

Most Democrats are Christian as well. One of the largest, and the most powerful, voting blocks in the Democratic base are the workers unions, which tend to be just as religious and “redneck” ie blue collar as anything the right can drag out.

You’re mixing up evangelicals with militias, it’s not the same thing.

Liberals incite on race, but I’m not going to brush stroke all minorities as liberal goaded activists, it’s not fair, nor will I brush stroke all stoned ass college kids, again, not fair.

I’m an atheist, and I vote :wgrin:

You said a whole lot of BS, so rather than refute and counter it all I’ll concentrate on common ground (if you care to I will though).

Yes and this can only happen once you stop finger pointing and name blaming.

I think we all should, but I don’t call any of these people my leaders.

I’d advocate that for over 200k and an even larger hike for over 500k. I’d also hike the estate tax and capital gains tax…

Agreed.

I agree. I’d also toss in credit card reform, tax paid financial education, and mixed housing but… wont’ happen.

You also need to blame urban city culture, and lack of a homogenious society (sucks as it might nations that have one have less problems) for this as well. But having a hetro and urban society is part of who we are, as such we need to accept that it will cause problems and move beyond that.

There’s a shocker.

I don’t know why I bother either, but let me just say I hope they didn’t let you use a gun with a bullseye-shaped reticle on its scope. I want the people who use guns to at least know the difference between a targeting object and the middle of its target.

Honestly, I don’t think there is any way for us to conclude that today’s climate of violent political rhetoric had anything to do with the Arizona shooting. SHOULD we be toning it down. Maybe. Does FOX news spread misinformation. Yes. Does it have anything to do with this case?

I don’t think so. The way I see it, the guy was both literally and figuratively taking loony pills. I haven’t even seen one news article that states the bastard even listened to news radio.

But I am glad that Sarah Palin is getting her head handed to her over this incident. Every cloud has a silver lining–if there are fewer people that will take her seriously as a presidential candidate because of this, great.

There are some people trying to make more of the connection than there is, but I think a lot of people are fundamentally in agreement with you. While there is no cause-and-effect relationship to be found between the rhetoric and the shootings, this does represent an opportunity–maybe even a wake-up call–for people to reconsider the mindless hostility that pervades our politics.

Of course, trying to find or manufacture that cause-and-effect link makes for better copy, so that’s where the focus goes.

So let me get this straight, I said…

  • some rifle scopes, and other types of sights, have bullseyes instead of crosshairs, it isn’t uncommon at all.*

and gave you

And you deny that such a thing is real? Do you want me to pull up a single dot in the center with a ring around it scope? They do exist. Have you ever even used a firearm? Have you seen one?

^-- exactly why I just put you on ignore. you. You’re grasping at straws to make some microscopic point that doesn’t have any real definitive bearing upon anything other than whether there’s some potential equivalency between some previous image featuring someone that did NOT get shot to a previous image featuring someone that DID get shot. “That’s not a crosshair, it’s a surveyor’s mark!”

If you can find it, go watch some Karl Rove in town hall debate-ish formats and watch how he interacts with people he disagrees with. That’s what I’m getting out of you. It’s part of what’s wrong with political discourse today.

It’ll be interesting to see three months from now what affect this has had and what we do to prevent it from happening again. Mental health issues don’t seem to be getting any better in this disassociated age. The John Gabriel Greater Internet Dickwad theory probably isn’t helping breed a better society.

Is this thread title actually praising him? What the hell is up with that? Screw that ******.

Ban Doom and Marilyn Manson

Can I ask you an honest question? Are you an idiot?

P.S. Go ahead and put me on ignore

You could at least explain why you think his statement is idiotic, you might come off as less of a douche.

Because he’s ignoring acerbic who is making some very good points in this thread because he doesn’t agree with him. his lose though.

see also: http://shoryuken.com/f3/way-go-jared-loughner-congresswoman-gabrielle-giffords-d-shot-head-261851/index8.html#post10080320