So what you’re saying is Ryu somehow sensed Gouki’s chi at Gouken’s dojo and used that to track him down? That would explain how Ken finds Ryu in SFA3 and some other fighter meetings, I guess. Still it’s a bit of a stretch almost DBZ like…
As far as Alex goes, I’m guessing that Gill is impressed with his potential and probably believes Alex will become one of the strongest fighters on the planet, someone who is worthy of being in his utopia.
Ken and Gouki’s dialogue is interesting the say the least. I think Ken’s simply surprised Gouki is still alive and that someone hasn’t killed him by now. I’m assuming this means Gouki killed Vega AFTER Guile defeated him. Otherwise Guile would informed his brother in law of the mysterious man who killed Vega.
Gouki vs. Oro is similar to Gouki vs. Gen. One thing to remember is Oro IS fighting with a severe Handicap and if nothing else Gouki wants to fight a fighter at their full potential.
I’m inclined to agree with this. This would fit Gouki’s character. I say that it wasn’t an empty threat, but when he realized Oro was fighting with a handicap he probably wasn’t giving it his all. When Gouki gives it his all, only one person walks away breathing.
T. Hawk is actually the character with the second most amount of backstory out of all the new characters introduced to Super SF2 (though he still pales in comparison to the first when it comes to amount of story gunk, Cammy. But then again, so do lots of characters :p) And it’s mainly because unlike Fei Long or Dee Jay, he has actual personal interactions with Shadaloo characters.
I’d be surprised if there were more on him, Fei Long, or Dee Jay than what’s already recorded, though. Heck, I remember Saiki mentioning in a mailing list that Dee Jay was THE least developed of all the Alpha 3 characters (which I guess is to be expected since he was a Capcom of America design, so of course Capcom of Japan wouldn’t have devised too much for him :p).
Fear the 1 year old who manages to remember what his father told him about Shadaloo and M. Bison at that age! For M. Bison is the man who wields the blue beam!
Ummm… all I’m saying is that mid-fight Gouki realizes that there is more to Oro than meets the eye. It would probably be smarter for him to use this fight as an opportunity to figure out just how much power Oro has behind him. In the fight with Gen, Gouki was the one who pulled back. He stopped fighting after he realized that Gen was ill. This situation is kind of similar. He could have stopped after he saw that Oro was fighting with a handicap. I think that it fits Gouki’s character pretty well.
By the way, is there actually any sort of confirmation that this fight did actually happen? It’s pretty pointless to argue about an unconfirmed incident. I wonder if we’ll have to wait til the next SF comes out before we find out any results?
-Clay
PS For the record, I think that Oro has a pretty good chance of ending this fight on his own terms. He may be more than a match for Gouki. I’m not going to underestimate him.
I think the reason Oro and Gouki didnt go full out in their battle is because they both have the same goal. They both want to see Ryu reach his true potential and both knew that both of them were needed for Ryu to achieve this. I think they fought each other to see if the other one was worthy to teach/fight Ryu. Thats my thoughts
Man, though, I cant believe Capcom USA cut out the dialogue between everyone and Shin Gouki. I think it’s safe to say that SFIII and 2nd Impact has recieved the typical Capcom USA treatment and 3rd strike has the accurate one.
Anyways, I don’t think that Ken fought Gouki to save Gouken’s daughter. I think he jumped in cuz he was pissed off. And I still think that Retsu saved Ken and Gouken’s daughter. Bcuz Gouki wouldve killed Ken. If Gouki is challenged, Gouki WILL kill the other guy whether they r strong or weak. The only exception is Ryu, Gen, Oro and kids.
And about Feilong and DeeJay…
Feilong is Bruce Lee…and DeeJay has a pet bird called Baramacho(I think).
That is all.
Yeah, that’s kind of what I was thinking. Not just about Oro and Gouki, but about Retsu as well. Checking each other out to see if they were worthy to train Ryu is a nice insight as well.
:lol:
Man that’s classic. Talk about two dimensional characters. Couldn’t have put it better myself.:lol:
-Clay
Clay: Thanks for elaborating on your previous post. I guess I can probably agree to that. The only difference between Gouki’s fights with Oro and Gen was that Gen had a life-threatening illness, so I didn’t think Gouki would react to Oro’s handicap in that same fashion.
Saiki: That’s another interesting theory, but wouldn’t their interests in Ryu seem unknown to each other at this point?
Still alive.
Well it’s good to see everyone survived the boards’ destruction.
So Capcom cut out Shin Gouki’s dialogue in 2i and replaced it with “…”? Should we be surprised?
Grande Falcon: I bet Gouki has already guessed Oro’s “handicap” is self-induced and not the result of something like a boating accident.
Saiki: As long as were on the topic, were there any other interesting dialogues between Shin Gouki and any other characters in 2i? What did Ryu say to him? How about Yun/Yang, Alex, or Oro?
Okay Ive been reading all this and some questions came to mind.
So Ken and Retsu were both at the dojo when Gouken died? If so how come they didn’t intervine with Gouki when he was fighting/killing Gouken? Did they not hear the fighting? Maybe Gouken’s daughter went and got em, but I heard she saw the entire fight.
2)Gouken’s daughter, whats really know about her? Ive read she witnessed the fight between her dad and her uncle, and that she dissapeared after that, but is that all thats known about her? Is there any speculation about what happend to her? Also whats Ken and Ryu’s relationship with her? if any.
3)Lets see, Gouki dosnt kill Ken, Gen, or Oro in his first encounters with them. Does he even kill anyone in his first encounter with them? Or does he just size up his opponents in his first meeting and then kill later?
I have a theroy on Ken’s statement to Gouki about him thinking he was dead. You can correct me if Im wrong on this. Supposedly the ShunGokuSatsu is supposed to be just as deadly for its user and its victim, maybe Ken figured he was killed by using the ShunGokuSatsu, on Vega maybe?
They didn’t intefere because it was a sanctioned, honorable fight to the death between the two students of Ansatsuken. Had Gouki lost he would have expected Gouken to kill him.
Gouken’s daughter is the only one, allegedly, that witnessed the entire fight betwen Gouken and Gouki (Ken arrived at the end of the fight). Capcom may have even intended her to be a character in one of the games before scrapping the idea. Allegedly Ryu and Ken referred to her as 'Little miss", dunno what that means. Ryu would likely know her better as he was raised at Gouken’s since he was a baby.
Gouki is kind of an odd fellow. He won’t kill anyone if he thinks they have the potential to get stronger and possibly challenge him down the road(Ryu). He also won’t kill anyone that doesn’t directly pose a threat to him in a fight (Ken). And finally he won’t fight or kill anyone who’s operating under a handicap (Oro, Gen).
He does kill Bison the second time they meet in Super Turbo.
The ShunGokuSatsu CAN BE as deadly to its user as it is to its victim. The user must be VERY CAREFUL and have absolute control over himself and his emotions or he too will die. Ken may have thought that somewhere down the line Gouki could screw when using the move but I doubt it. I personally think He’s just surprised that Gouki is still alive and fighting at such an advanced age.
I disagree with you on this one. Remember, when you read a tranlation of something into English, sometimes you lose, gain, or transpose something. I doubt seriously that IF Ken had even attempted to fight Gouki, he would not have been strong enough to enflame his fist yet. I think (like someone else said) Ken jumped in because he was upset. I think that Ken didn’t get a hit in on Gouki either, he probably caught one stiff kick to the side of the head and it was lights out. Which would explain how he knows Gouki, and why he’s still breathing. I don’t really think Retsu actually fought. I think he grabbed Mana & Ken and got out of dodge as fast as possible. Gouki was probably too exhausted to chase them down. Because if they had fought, Retsu would be dead. Gouki is fickle but as far as I know he does not spare grown men that aren’t fighting with some sort of handicap.
I’m inclined to believe that this translation lost something and that it went more along the lines of"…let me see your fists burn again." I think it’s more of a metaphorical statement than a literal one. Gouki hasn’t seen Ken in a while, he remembers that he was a pretty good fighter and wants to see him fight again. And even if you do take it literally, this is Ryu’s best buddy we’re talking about. So if Gouki makes it a habit to keep up with Ryu, I’m sure he would at least know a little about Ken. Esp something important like “Hey, you can set your fist on fire.”
saiki: That’s a reasonable point. But like Grenade Falcon said, they wouldn’t know that. Not to mention, they have different reasons for wanting Ryu too become as good as possible. I still say it’s for no other reason than because of Oro’s handicap. That is the explanation that best fits Gouki’s character.
On a side note, to everyone in this thread:
In all seriousness, Gouki vs. an unhandicapped Oro-who wins?
Ken’s statement probably just means that he’s suprised to see Gouki so old and stll alive. After all, going around fighting deathmatches all the time is bound to get you killed eventually right.
Haven’t been here in a while. I finally got around to actually reading that massive FAQ of Tiamat’s. Good job! BUt I have a few comments/corrections:
Oro uses both his arms for all 3 of his hidden EX supers in 3S, not just the gigantic Yagyou Dama (bit ball super).
You were right in comparing Q to Balrog. But why did you turn around and say “This is why Q has a dashing headbutt a la Birdie (Balrog knew Birdie from SFA3 after all” - where did BIrdie come from? Q has a dash punch, just like Balrog, not a dash headbutt.
For some reason, you mention Shadowlaw under Rose’s entry, but Shadawloo every where else.
Uhm, that’s all the stuff I can think of. It’s quite flawless otherwise, but if I find anything else I’ll let you know.
On Ken vs. Gouki:
Yeah, I think Ken may have attacked Gouki due to rage after Gouken got killed. Maybe this was where Ken’s fists first flamed a la his flaming DP/Shinryuken? Maybe it that kind of display which caused Gouki to not kill Ken, as he might have sensed that Ken had some potential.
Speaking of Gouki vs. Gouken, I forget - WAS that fight an honourable one where Gouki challenged Gouken and Gouken accepted and was defeated yadda yadda yadda, or was there some sort of foul play going on? I know Goutetsu died happily, but I don’t recall Gouken dying thusly.
To HCParker:
Bison/Vega and Gouki met before Super Turbo?
To tas 2:
Waittaminute: Did I see you over on Highervoltage/net’s forums as TAS X? Hmmm. Well anyway, almost nothing is known about Gouken’s daughter (she doesn’t even have a name, and only two different sketches of her are in existence), and it’s highly likely that Capcom has forgotten she even exists.