aerialgroove:
> SFIIWW and SFZ2 run on the SNES with different shading styles regardless of the system’s technical abilities. The size of the sprites, the number of colors etc?yes, the art style?no.
Er, yes and? Capcom switched their sprite art style after ST from the more realistic shading to closer match the actual design art work they were putting out since, I dunno, SF1?
> The only reason they used the anime style is because it is based on an anime movie.
Explain why every single CPSII fighting game other than SSF2 and ST have a similar in-game art style then. Explain why they continued that type of art style on CPSIII, Naomi, and now Taito Type-X2. Somehow, I doubt the likes of Dark Stalkers and Warzard was influenced by the SF anime movie.
The fact is, Capcom clearly always had a particular art style in mind when they created characters (see their portrait artwork for SF1 and Final Fight). They just chose, after ST, to make the in-game sprites more closely match that artwork. but it has always been anime-influenced.
> SFIII is not based on an anime movie and shouldn’t look like it. Same with IV.
Well, they don’t look like Zero. But they do look like an extension of what ST started.
> This goes for ingame sprites and artwork. SFIII character select screen art is inbetween the more reaslistic SFII style and the anime SFZ style but closer to Zero. Maybe you haven’t noticed. Some SSFIIX portrait looks almost like a photograph. And just take a look at the SFIIWW?SSFIIX art by Akiman and Bengus, not very Manga. Sakura=Sailor Moon=Manga.
Some of the WW artwork, perhaps. CE? HF? Super? ST? Not at all. Bison’s first got his Joker-like hideous grin in CE artwork (the one where he looks like Kato - which is manga, last I checked).
What, you’re claiming Vega’s sole influence was from San Po? Well, we have no way of proving that, but we all know the masked guy, the beautiful vain guy, and crazy guy the who licks blood off his weapon are all old anime stereotypes.
Weren’t you the one who asked me about various characters from Golgo 13 being a possible influence for Vega?
> Also look at SSFIIX Revival, does the art look like typical manga?
Typical, I wouldn’t say so. But definitely manga.
> Since you claim sano is “wrong” I will show more of what WE consider typical Manga styles: Akira, Sailor Moon, Battle Angel Alita, Dragonball (Big Eyes), Cyberbots, Power Stone, Pocket Fighter, Rival Schools. Non typical Manga style: HNK (based on Mad Max), Gon, Alien VS Predator, D&D. Final Fight 1,2,3.
There’s more to “typical manga styles” than what you’re suggesting. There’s a huge valley of difference between Pocket Fighter and Rival Schools.
But anyway, what’s your point? Since SF falls within all of those, doesn’t that make my point that SF is essentially manga/anime-based? Don’t forget that Cammy has always had big eyes, and SF1 and SF Zero 1/2 portrait artwork is identical and a game with all of those characters in that style wouldn’t result in a clash. If anything, it’s SF2’s in-game sprites that are the anomaly here, which was 5 games out of how many now?
> As long as Capcom keeps SF the way of the second category, we feel it fits. Wether you call that Manga or not does not matter, the point is, there are these two categories regardless of where the influences come from (take it as is).
Even if I were to agree that there are only two categories, which I don’t necessarily agree with, there’s such a wide range within those categories that it renders this point moot. SF’s design has always fallen squarely within manga and anime. None of SF’s artwork will never be confused with the likes of MK’s artwork, or stuff like Tao Feng.
> That SFIII is a teenie (Manga) game is something we talked about a lot. Ryu and Ken as teens is what Zero was about and they tried to get the style and the youth into SFIII with new teens, but SFI and SFII were not about teens and I’m glad SFIV isn’t either.
I must have missed that discussion, cause I would have said it’s full of holes.
Ryu and Ken aren’t even teenagers during Zero series. Manga != teens. Not all manga is shounen stuff. SF3 has teens, yes, since it was part of the whole “New Generation” thing and they had some links to the previous generation (Sean -> Ken, Yun/Yang -> Lee), but it’s not like they were the first teenagers in an SF game (that would be Cammy). You make it sound like the majority of the game is teens, when it’s about a third - there are as many freaks and weirdos as there are teens in SF3. The game is not “about” the teens - they’re hardly central to the story, and they’re not even considered to be that powerful, canon-wise.
> I disagree about just “throwing them in there”. Rose would need a seious redesign. Guy from Zero looks nothing like Guy from FF1. If a SFIV Rose looks that different then fine. But that’s not throwing her in there.
None of the SF characters would need a redesign to fit in SFIV. Once rendered in an art style that matches everyone else, it will be fine. This is where the confusion comes in: Put SFZ Rose’s sprite against SF3 Urien sprite, it looks bad, because of the different sprite dimensions, different colour depths, etc. Put Rose in a game against Urien when they’re drawn in the same style, then there will be no problem.
As an aside, there was nothing about CPSI Guy that they couldn’t put in Zero. They just felt like updating him.
> And why not choosing characters from Muscle Bomber or FF, that already fit? Why not creating some new favorites? Why not one of the fatties from FF instead of Rufus? They could use the same model, just change the textures and name.
I agree with all of that. But it seems that Capcom has made a policy decision regarding FF characters in SFIV, i.e. they don’t want to use them. As for Muscle Bomber characters, I don’t think they own those. Even so, Capcom has this bad habit of acting like they don’t want to use all the characters at their disposal. We’ll see what the final cast is like.
> Just throwing all those Character together is like using ten fonts when creating a cover, it becomes ugly and hard to read.
Bad analogy. Why do you assume that putting in all characters in the same art style is going to result in a clash? Name one example of this happening!
When SNK put Art of Fighting characters into King of Fighters along Fatal Fury characters, did they look out of place? If they used the enormous sprites from AoF, yes, but they didn’t. The instead redrew the characters to match the others. They didn’t redesign them - they simple changed the art style to match the style of everyone else. That is all that would need to happen in SFIV. SFIV Rose will still look like Rose, only she won’t be as wide relatively to the others like, say, she was in CFJ, and her colours would match up more with Chun-li because they’ll have the same colour depth.
Another example: Look at their Marvel games. Capcom took Gary Frank’s Hulk, Jim Lee’s Magneto and Psylocke, Rob Liefeld’s Juggernaut, and Mark Bagley’s Spider-Man (those are the only characters whose art styles I can readily identify), and put them all in one game where they all fit together. Why can’t Capcom do this with SFIV and their cast of colour characters?
As an aside, Dudley is about as much a clone of Balrog as Akira from Virtua Fighter is a clone of Ryu.
> Urien, Gill and Superdoopermanga Ingrid better stay the fuck out of SFIV. SFI and SFII did not need any gods, they worked fine. No gods please.
Ingrid I can agree too, though that’s mainly because I think she’s a terrible character. Hell, until I see otherwise, I’m chalking up her appearance in SF to count as much as Spawn’s appearance in Soul Calibur (though I should point out, in terms of gameplay and appearance, she fits quite well in the Zero bunch). BUt I see nothing wrong with Gill or Urien (both would be pushing it though). Retroactively, what’s the difference between Bison and Urien/Gill? Gameplay-wise, what’s the difference between Urien (Gill’s overpowered) and Bison?
> I guess you haven’t finished anything yet, I won’t have a lot of time to argue but I think I made it clear that sano is not the only one who considers artstyle a reason not to put a character in a game.
As far as I’m concerned, this argument was over before it begun. I’m still right, and you’re both still wrong.
Terrible arguing? At no point did I feel was I arguing with you or anyone, only expessing my point of view and that’s it. I had a rather large reply quoting you and going back and forth, but I trimmed it down because right now it doesn’t matter until we see what Capcom does anyway and I don’t ever want to feel like I’m arguing on this thread. Especially with regards to things I have no power over, like Capcom adding whatever characters they want to. I’ll agree to disagree and move on.
