Jeffry does lots of damage, yes, but you aren’t going to be hitting 3K+G and wall combos against solid players all day. Combos in this game are never free when it’s played right.
I get that. Maybe I’ll keep Aoi in the pocket whenever I do come across good players. But against bad players, I need to kill them fast. I just don’t like Aoi damage output to deal with bad players. So I feel my punishment should get more mileage. I’m really understanding the meta game well, or picking it up. But Aoi is frustrating as hell to use, especially against bad players. I feel I want to do stuff with her, and I can’t because people just mash out of everything. I know that is a personal problem.
I mean I think these days I need a scrub killing heavy hitter to kind of easy my way into a game. Back when I played Marvel (I no longer play it), I picked Hulk in Hulk and Sentinel in the beginning, because they were better at killing scrubs. Then I changed my team to a better team with the player base as a whole got better. So for my sake, I need a scrub killer. Jeff fits that bill. When I rank up high enough to play against better players, then I think I can start running my Aoi with more success. I’ve studied her frame data, movement, setups, etc. But the problem is that I need to play against a thinking opponent. I’ll pick her back up, but Jeff is my man for now.
I gotta be honest, I don’t think I can handle this game on top off playing SF4AE and Third Strike aswell. Which is annoying because I don’t want to be some casual noob, I’m very competitive. I played VF5FS a few days through after it dropped and when I got back to AE I was all rusty, ditto with 3s. I just can’t have that…fucking decisions.
Just in my opinion, I think 3D games are more solid. I have been playing AE for damn near 4 years. I think I’m only going to enter tournaments for AE, and not really practice. Other than AE I’m done with 2D. I love 3D more, so Tekken Tag 2 and VF5:FS will be my games of choice to level up in.
I know some people have your problem though. I’m not sure why though. I’ve played multiple games for years, and I rarely have time adjusting. Hell time away from AE kind of refreshes me. When I play too much I start to get sloppy. As a matter of fact, I think that’s whats happening to me in VF, and I may go back to AE for a week so I can “refresh” myself in VF.
If I were to make a suggestion, I would focus on a different game every week. One week AE, second week 3s (ugh), and third week VF. I personally realized that I can’t really play more than two games at the same time. That’s why when TTT2 comes out, I’m pretty much dropping AE. I like 3D games feel and vibe much better than 2D. so I’m becoming a more full time 3D player.
I have the opposite. I’m not nearly digging 3d fighters as much as I do 2d fighters. Not sure what you mean by more solid though. I just think VF is too much to learn, and knoweing my competitive self I know I will want to become a really good shun di instead of mediocre one, which ain’t happening unless I play VF daily and spend hours in training like I do in SF4 and 3S.
Oh and about adjusting…this is my first 3d fighter that I tried to seriously pick up. I mean obviously it’s a great fighting game for a lot of reasons (mainly that you really fight ‘the player’ and not so much the character) but I’m just not sure if I can give this game any priority over AE and 3S which I’m familiar with already.
Good games. 
I noticed you like to use Screw Hook (214P), its a fast move but you have to learn how to hit confirm with it. There is a tutorial that specifically teaches you this in VF4:E. If its blocked, you can easily be punished if you use the followup P which is high. On normal hit followup with P, on counter hit try for 336P.
Wolf’s elbow class move is 3P if you want to apply pressure.
I moved toward Jeffry for very different reasons, yes huge damage off of 3K+G/46P was a selling point. But I play Jeff very basic, using P/2P/6P (or 2P+K) and throws as the basic elements, which is the same as any other character, but with Jeffry, it’s really all he has going for him, so he makes you develop good fundamentals and not rely on sabuki’s, or special tricks other character use that can cover up holes in your bad fundamentals. Plus I do like his range game and like to zone and whiff punish as much as I can. He is a scrub killer, but he can also be a competent character to use against more experienced player if you are on point- which is the same for any character, really.
I find this amazing because I think Street Fighter has WAY more to learn than VF.
I think it just varies from person to person, especially if they started with 2D for a while before going into 3D or vice versa.
What I like about VF, GG, KOF etc is that there’s so much more flexibility in how you can do everything opposed to SF. It feels like I have more breathing room and can experiment more. I like SF but not as much as those games.
I think 2D is very easy to get into, and tur conceptd are simple. But it’d complexity comes from meter management and options from meter. Most all modern 2D games are balanced around meter.
I don’t really like that though. O hate that sometimes meter gives people get out jail free cards. I hate that if I count frames perfectly I can still get beat by an invicible move. I know everyone is different.
James Chen said at CEO that the some players are instinctive, and some are more scientific. I think I’m definitely a more scientific player. That’s why I like 3D games, because I can get my frame data knowledge down to a science there.
I also think some players have a more 2D and 3D mindset. I never liked the fact that in 2D you can fly 50 feet in the air (ok you could do that in Vf2 too). I like how movement is just as important as learning combos. In 2D games besides Marvel and a few animu, movement is less emphasized. In 3D learning movement is a deal breaker. And you will spend just as much, if not more time learning how to move as you will grinding out combos and mixups.
Not all 3D players are scientists though. I know Anakin a known Tekken player from area says he doesnt use frame data. Not sure how he does it.
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That’s also a major part in it i think yeah. I really don’t enjoy counting all the frames, memorising them, knowing when I have an advantage. In AE or 3S I ‘instinctively’ know when I can do something. I mean I do know general framedata for my Gen in AE, but I couldn’t tell you how much frames I have to punish chun li’s overhead kick on block with gens super…I just know I can.
I agree. I find Street Fighter and 2D games in general way too complicated. Both execution-wise and game system-wise. I feel 3D games like SC and VF are easier to get into. The exception for me is Tekken, which I don’t understand.
I think 2D games are more scientific/execution based while 3D fighters are more about intuition/yomi
VF is player vs player, SF is matchups
Some might find one easier to do than the other
IMO
This.
I enjoy having to play a match up differently, but I hate when a match up makes such a big deal on the outcome of the match.I don’t enjoy having a secondary pocket character, while I have no problem with people counter-picking, I rather have a game with all characters can stand a chance vs any other character, I think it promotes more character diversity instead of running the characters that have the better match-ups vs the most commonly used rest of the cast.
3D games at higher levels are intuition and yomi. But you need some really good technical skills in 3D to even get to that point. If someone can keep spamming a move that’s unsafe over and over again, that’s bad. This is the biggest problem newbs have in Tekken. It appears Tekken can be mashy, because some people will spam unsafe strings and moves over and over again. But once you understand your frame data, you will see whatever the are doing has holes. Or some strings are meant to make you guess. But if you could jab them out of it, then why not? But if you don’t understand your frame data, you would eat a mixup you never had to.
I will say that a move’s recovery is a huge part of 2D, but not as big in 3D. Where as a move’s startup and advantage on block is more important in 3D. In 3D games you HAVE to block in situations, and blocking is way more valuable. For example (bad example) blocking sweeps in VF on reaction usually get’s you a fat punish. Where in 2D blocking is something you do to not get hit. In 3D blocking is something you do to get an advantage.
I personally think 3D games are up there in terms of execution. sure you may learn your character combos in like a day or 2 (where in 3D it may take a few weeks or a month), but there are so many other things that require strict execution. For example positioning, and how to alter your character on the axis to make a combo connect. Tekken, SC, and VF has this (not sure about DOA). Also movement is actually pretty difficult to learn, and easy to mess up in 3D. Where in 2D advance movement like wave dashing, air dashing, IAD are fairly easy to get use to. Tekken has back dash canceling, side step cancelling, canceling your side step to a forward or backdash. This can be pretty hard to do consistently, since this movement has a lot of precision. I’m learning how to move in VF, and doing evade to crouch dash, evade to backdash is pretty hard to get consistently.
I personally think 2D games are more about intuition and guessing. When you are behind on frames, you can throw out an invicible move which pretty much screws up that person's advantage. 2D has this 50/50 situations where you're guessing. You can't actually see the mixup. 3D, you actually can see the mixup, but if your opponent is good, you won't always be able to react to them. I also think execution in 2D is more normalized or universal, where in 3D it will change quite a bit base on relative positions to each other.I found this in an interview to Fuudo (as you can see they mention a high level Japanese player who doesn’t excel in execution but does well because of Yomi):
I mean this is also true for 2D games. Look at both Arturo Sanchez and Dieminion in AE. As a Guile player, I can tell you Dieminion doesn’t do a lot of technical stuff with Guile like kara sonic booms, or use Guile st.HP super confirm. But he wins the most with Guile. More than any other Guile.
Arturo isn’t close to being a technical Rose or Sim. But he is a top player with both characters.
I remember a Chipp GGXX player who use to just play keep away and triple jump and air threw people all day. He had a few combos, but they weren’t that hard.
Let’s not even get on how people have simple low execution teams in Marvel, but are top players.
The barrier for entry for 2D is quite low as well. But I think if there was any genre where some level of execution is needed, then it would definitely be 3D. If anything due to the movement. I don’t think you really need combos to excel in 3D, but you don’t really need them in 2D either. It helps in both cases though. You can really enforce yomi if you have no idea how to move in and out of ranges. And that’s usually achievable with advance movement. So execution is required. I think sometimes people tend to think combos are the end all be all of execution. Maybe in 2D, but not in 3D.
Instinct comes with experience. In SF, you can appropriately react to unique situations instinctively. I do that in VF all the time. Oftentimes, frame data only serves to verify what I already know. It’s a great tool for explaining why certain situations play out the way they do, but if I see a knee, I know that I can punish it with at least a PK. If I block anything that didn’t leave me reeling, then I have the advantage after the block and I should press the attack. And it’s the same for evading, throwing, OMs, etc. It just comes with experience.
I think Fuudo is spot on when he says VF requires a lot of yomi. And yomi can’t be found in frame data.
I don’t agree at all with that sentiment. I feel that 3d fighters requires a much more scientific minded player in order to become good. I just don’t enjoy that way of thinking personally. The problem with VF is that sure I can get instinct and know that I can punish that particular knee move with something I have by experience. However, there are soooooo many moves for each character that there is no way I will be able to learn them all by heart, let alone for 19 characters! Also yomi is also found in SF, not just VF.