Think you forgot the video.
[media=youtube]u2fMYlhG5Ys&NR=1[/media]
What did the Vega do at 3:34? It looks like some clusterfuck cancelled into the Izuna Drop. Also, I need some help with M. Bison and Balrog.
For Bison: I literally lost almost all the time to this rage-quitter “UltraMr.Bison”. HE JUST DOES PSYCHO CRUSHER and tick throws. Very predictable but I was helpless.
For Balrog: I can deal with cr. mp’ing his rushes, but the headbutt is a big problem.
And lastly, how are some players able to get the dive out so fast after doing a dive >> cr. mp >> dive? It seems like the dives I do after cr. mp are a split-second slower. How are we cancelling cr. mp into the dive?
That’s just lag.
It’s just a normal walldive.
Against Bison that’s spamming Psycho Crusher you should be able to flipkick it on reaction from fullscreen to midscreen.
You can also very easily jump back :hp: it and it would beat it clean.
Against Balrog you can play a pure ground game against him if you want to but i have had more success playing a heavy walldive style akin to you would play against Honda.
Headbutt will whiff against crossup dive and you can easily punish it’s recovery and then go into more walldive mixups from there.
About getting walldives out fast it’s just a matter of practice.
It’s not that hard of a cancel really just try it a few times in practice mode and you should eventually get it.
I myself don’t use any particular method for it i simply hit :d::mp: and then hit :u::hk:
Also remember to start charging d right away after doing the first Dive, but also steer the Dive using df or db. That way, you won’t lose charge, and then simply combo into cr Strong upon landing and cancel into the second Dive or Wall Spike.
Hey, I have some more probably-dumb little Vega questions. There are just various aspects of the game that I feel like I’m missing by just learning the “advanced” stuff and watching videos and whatnot, so… yeah.
First of all, I straight up… neglect like a third of Vega’s moveset. Namely, standing/crouching short, standing/crouching jab, and close standing… anything. Also, when I’m in the air, the only time I use a move other than j. Fierce or j. Roundhouse is when I just… sort of feel like pressing a different button for the hell of it. I sort of just pick one of those two moves and go with it without really thinking, so I’m sure I could be doing a lot to improve that aspect of my game.
Also… jab Clawroll. I throw this move in there every so often, but it’s like… only when I “feel like it,” so to speak. I don’t really know when I’m actually “supposed” to use it, in really any matchup. Just whenever I’m close enough that they won’t try to fireball me, and I think they won’t reversal or something? As an aside, is medium clawroll actually useful for anything?
Wallclaw. I use this move a decent amount but I dunno, sometimes it backfires. Fei Long just blocks it, runs up and smacks me. I’ve read posts that suggest using it against Zangief and T Hawk, but I’ve gotten smacked by/traded with lariat enough that I’m hesitant to agree. In general they seem to be able to close a decent amount of space after blocking it so I’m not really seeing much reward? I do still use it a solid amount, don’t get me wrong, but I’ve read stuff like “use lots of wallclaw against T Hawk/Zangief, it’s completely safe” and… eh?
Also, I have a pretty hard time walldiving against Chun Li. Maybe I’m just predictable but I always seem to get shot out of the sky by spinning bird kick or jumping… something. I probably need to improve my walldive game in general, but any advice on that matchup in general?
I think I’m becoming pretty good with Vega, still have some kinks to work out:
- How do you initiate offense versus a turtling Honda? I realize this is a hard match. Let’s say the Honda is too smart to headbutt into your j. fierce and can also anticipate a dive.
- Same thing with Dee-Jay. He is waiting to j. jab your dive.
- Same thing with Bison. He is waiting to psycho crush you if you walk up, and is waiting to j. mp your dive.
Against other characters I always have some plan. Funny thing is these are Vega’s worst matchups.
EDIT: I also noticed that I sometimes get hit out of my cr. strong from the dive. Is there a way to combo faster? Ideally I’d like someone to see how I do this in motion, I’m convinced I’m doing it a bit slower. Or maybe that’s just my feeling.
Harass him.
Jump in with :hp: and back with it.
Aslong as you are not landing ontop of him he can’t jab headbutt it.
Then when you get a chance get the walldives started.
There is a link in the first post to playing a ground game against Deejay try that out.
Bison can’t really psycho crusher you as you walk up to him since you can just bait it by jumping back with fierce.
How to walldive loop against Bison: [media=youtube]G7LMkf-4KlQ#t=0m16s[/media]
Just try to incorporate them more into your game if you feel you are missing out on something.
If you don’t find any proper usage then stick with what you are doing.
Jab roll is great from a distance because the last part when he stick out the claw is very high priority:
In terms of Wallclaw there is a match in the video archive with Baconology that you might wanna watch:
[media=youtube]O7p7YpU9CVI[/media]
As you can see Wallclaw beats Lariat aslong as it’s not done just as the wallclaw hits and that’s very hard to time.
Walldives against Chun are very effective when done so that just the tip hits.
That’s what she has trouble dealing with.
[media=youtube]nxEvxhegt_I[/media]
If you try to do normal walldives or crossup walldives she does indeed have upkicks to hit you although that’s not all that reliable because the hitbox for upkicks is really bad.
So, to make the “tip” hit you want to be holding back in the middle of the dive, right???
EDIT: I just realized I usually never steer the dive, I just hold “DB” right away to charge the next one. Also, what’s the motion for the super? I cannot seem to get it to work.
Well it’s not simply holding back you will have to move back and forth depending on how your opponent moves in reaction to your position.
There is a post on super motion in the first post.
Give it a try.
Thanks, Shari - you’re too helpful! Thanks for putting up my with noobish Vega skills.
Also, this is a summary of how a match goes when I face Ken: [media=youtube]Mh6HYWJosgk[/media]
WHAT DO I DO! I cannot punish that damn jab SRK, he’s always able to do a second one right before. I pretty much never dive in this match, killing my main offense (I seriously fear the fucking SRK, I hate it so much!). Once the fireballs start its game over for me. I need some good references but YouTube has come up short. So, questions…
- Any YouTube links of high level HDR Vega v. Ken?
- Shari, have you faced Damdai or WesTCyde? How did you do? I played against Wes the other week and did really well (2W 7L, but with Cammy), but I imagine his Ken would go 20-0 against my Vega.
HELP!!!
You just have to work on getting the timing down.
Youtube vids will not help you with that simply keep playing scrub ken players that love to spam it until you can punish it without effort.
There is one link in the video archive for a match with damdai vs Zazz but nothing i have found beyond that.
And yes i have played Damdai’s Ken once in a room with i believe it was Neurotic SRK and i didn’t actually lose a single game unsure if he was playing seriously though. Have not play Westcyde yet.
St. Mk is your best friend vs. SRK imo. I saw many opportunities for flip kick reversal and it never happened. A Claw with no flip kick is a dead Claw.
Poking with jab roll would have helped with long poke range. Fireballs? If the opponent uses slow fireballs, they’ll recover by the time you jump over it and you’ll get SRK sandwich. Fast fireballs? Use an empty jump to close in, or even use KKK backflip for quick avoidance.
The Claw in that match was poking cr.mp ALL the time. Falling victim to predictability.
Bait that SRK. Move randomly with Cr.lk, and st. lk, and use st.lp to bait SRK. Punish quickly with either cr.mp or walkup throw.
You can try punish with FP but its really risky unless you are very quick on the draw. You can bait FP SRK with fake dive, but be aware of spacing, if you fake against the ends of the stage, Ken will still get you.
On a side note, I’ve noticed the following against all players while fighting with Vega. If they think they have you cornered at the edge of stage, they will almost ALWAYS use some kind of jump attack, expecting Vega to Wall jump away. Watch for this.
Good luck, Noriega!
Wow, this is quite the data base of claw info. best part of the ST/HDR community is the knowledge that they spread :).
I gotta ask though were does vega fall in the character rankings in HDR? Does anyone know how high vega placed at evo2k9? I’m asking because I plan on focusing completely on HDR (even going to stop playing sf4), and I want to make sure I play a strong character. Call me a “tier whore” if you want, but I like to know I’m playing a character that will give back what I put in.
There is not many tier lists around, but eventhubs.com has something to say. This chart sparked a lot of debate, especially at the lower tier, but in general, Claw is still very good. Below is the link:
I think the majority of players here think that Claw is the best character in the game (that’s not counting the obviously banned Akuma) with Boxer being just below him.
The tier thread is around here somewhere. You can read up on that and get an idea of the consensus.
Except for the Vega players.
So I watched the videos of Tokido facing Choi and Wong’s Ken. I can see how I’ve been playing that matchup different, since I’ve been staying crouched the whole time. I notice Tokido was frantically walking, dashing, poking with st. mk, and using st. rh to AA. Unfortunately he lost more than he won so I’m still scared of the matchup lol. It sucks because I have to whip out Cammy every time I see a Ken, I’m just bad against him as Vega. But I’m going to try these new tactics.
EDIT: Can I get the Bison walldive loop explained in words, please? Thanks!
It’s simple.
If bison blocks you link a :d::mp: and go into opposite walldive if he jumps after you throw him back down with izuna drop and repeat.
If he does not jump after you, you get a free shot at his back which leads to another drop.
Aslong as you keep your execution solid he has a very hard way to get out of that.
Wow jeez, kickass thread. Thanks buddy! Ill be wasting a lot of time here.