Vega Thread Redux

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Please PM me if you find something you would want to add.
Especially for the matchups that are lacking in footage.

Grog · January 15, 2010, 11:45pm

That’s… really fucking nice. I think every thread needs matchup lists like that.

Heavenly_Claw · January 16, 2010, 8:13am

You really outdid yourself on this one, Shari! Nice job. I’d rep the heck out of you if I could. LOL

Shari · January 16, 2010, 9:47pm

Woo first strategy post:

So i just played Fuulani and discovered how amazing st::mk: is at stopping Blanka Ball.

Since it’s very fast in HDR it’s kinda hard to hit with :d::mp: at the tip but st::mk: will stop it extremely easily.

You have to give up your charge to use it though so i would not suggest doing it point blank or in the corner since Blanka can easily kill you if you let him jump-in on you.

But it is still an extremely effective way of stopping the Ball mixups from even coming into play.

Norieaga · January 16, 2010, 10:12pm

I got beaten hard last night by a Ken, and while he was solid he wasn’t great or anything. I am having huge problems with the SRK - HUGE. He was doing SRK’s flawlessly on wakeup so I couldn’t cross him up, and he was even able to land ANOTHER SRK after I would try to cr. mp the first. He also threw out many psychic SRK’s that whiffed and I had a chance of punishing, but he’d just hit me with another. Its like he had zero recovery frames. Do you have to punish it within a split-second of it occurring? I probably don’t even have the reflexes for that. Fuck, I’m doomed to get stomped by shitty Ken for life.

Shari · January 16, 2010, 10:30pm

Are you usually able to punish whiffed SRK ?

If so it was probably just lag.

If not you just gotta get the timing down to the point where it its automatic.
I don’t even think about punishing Whiffed SRK anymore i simply do it due to how many times i have done it.

If you keep it up and manage to get the timing down eventually you won’t even have to try to punish it you simply will.

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BruceLB · January 17, 2010, 1:38am

I just wanted to clear this up as it’s quite a common misconception.

Doing the double flip kick as db, f, db+k does NOT increase charge time. The theory is that you already start charging db before you hit the kick button giving you more time to charge the second kick (or fireball for Guile/DJ players who also use this method as b, f, b+p).

This is incorrect though because as soon as you finish the motion for the special move your charge time resets.

However, what this technique allows you to do, is start charging for the second flip kick immediately after the first one is complete because you are already holding db, but this comes at the expense of delaying the first flip kick. You’re essentially trading doing the first flip kick slightly later, in order to do the second flip kick slightly sooner.

For Guile/DJ this method of charging is not ideal because eventually the cost of delaying your first charge special will catch up to you in fireball wars, but for Claw players who really only need to do two charge specials, there really is no penalty for delaying your first flip kick. So people who have trouble landing the second flip kick should find it easier with this technique.

But the ideal charging motion will always be to return the stick to db/b as soon as you hit kick/punch, not before.

GoldenArch · January 17, 2010, 2:00am

As a Ken player, I’ve spammed dps before (but not for a really long time) and I also must deal with other Kens that spam in mirror matches. No one says that you absolutely must punish every dp that’s thrown. If you’re bad at punishing, then don’t do it. However, punishing dps isn’t all to difficult once you know what to look for.

What I’ve found is that Kens that spam dp (especially :lp: dp) follow it up with another dp. Hit him in the air at the height of his jump or sweep as he’s falling (this is especially easy to do on the second dp as you develop a better rhythm for it in that instance). Plus, a third :lp: dp is less likely to come out unless they really don’t know what they’re doing. So after the second, you’re pretty much free to punish.

:lp: DPs are used by inexperienced Ken players to cover their ass. After a move that they feel is somewhat unsafe, they throw out a :lp: dp in order to counter the punish of the unsafe move. Kens that do this are quite easy to bait into throwing out dps because they’re anxious in scoring damage even at the expense of giving up positioning (i.e. after a jump in, walk up, etc.).

blitzfu · January 17, 2010, 4:42am

Totally disagreed bro. When I play Guile players vs my Ken, the ones that use the pre charging method can keep up with my Hadokens for a much longer time than Guile players who don’t use the pre charge method. This is good as it keeps the fireball battle going a little longer. Also, don’t forget that Dee Jay requires more charge time for his Max Out, and therefore cannot keep up the fireball battle vs Hadokens as well as Guile can with his shorter charge time. I mean, you yourself said it, it helps Claw players do the double Flipkick juggle combo (I can’t do that combo without the pre charge method), so it stands to reason that it is also helpful for charge fireballs, not only during fireball battles but also for corner pressure.

If a Claw player cannot punish a whiffed Jab Shoryuken with cr Strong, then that’s a huge hole in his defense. The timing will come with experience, but it’s important that Claw players know how to punish whiffed Shoryukens. I mean, if I can punish whiffed Jab Shoryukens with SPDs with my Zangief, then it’s really easy to punish them with cr Strong, which has much less motion involved.

BruceLB · January 17, 2010, 6:43am

For Guile/DJ this is not ideal because b, f+p is quicker to complete than b, f, b+p. So that means for each fireball you pre-charge you delay it the amount of frames it takes you to move the joystick from forward to back before pushing punch, because you could have thrown the fireball sooner if you had just done b, f+p.

So this method only saves you time on the final fireball you throw, because you’re already charging as soon as the previous fireball finished and you’re not delaying it by pre-charging for the next one because you don’t plan to throw another one. But this does not make up for the cost of delaying each fireball before it.*

**This is why it helps Claw players despite it being inefficient for Guile/DJ, because this method saves time on the final charge special. For Claw it doesn’t matter if he is delaying the first flip kick because all that matters in the combo is the timing of the second (final) flip kick.
*
So while you may disagree it doesn’t change the fact that pre-charging fireballs is actually a slower method.

http://sonichurricane.com/articles/sfcharge.html

People always ask me how I can charge so fast, that’s because I use the real optimal method of returning the joystick to a charge position as soon as I push punch, and not before.

Shari · January 22, 2010, 2:22am

Added Video Archive.

Shari · January 23, 2010, 10:24am

Maybe i shouldn’t have made this thread it seems to have killed of all the Vega discussion

Heavenly_Claw · January 23, 2010, 11:08am

Shari, have you been able to study Baconology 101’s methods? Very unorthodox.

Are there any unusual general patterns that you see him use that would be useful to us aspiring Vegas who are trying to “Claw” their way to the top (pun intended)

Shari · January 23, 2010, 11:29am

The #1 thing i have learned from seeing and playing him is using the wallclaw which tends to be very underused by most claw players it seems.

It’s actually a very good move especially in the mirror match.

Kenshin_Homa · January 23, 2010, 10:38pm

Oh wow Shari, thanks a ton. This is much easier than going through the other Vega thread and I’m loving the video section.

Heavenly_Claw · January 25, 2010, 9:00am

Have you observed any use for WallClaw from the opposite wall? It looks silly, but it may have its use, I just haven’t thought of any.

Regular Wallclaw does good against Bisons who like to spam that j.mp. Hate that s$#t. Really hate it.

For the M.Bison match up, I want to clear up and see if I understand what I think.

Standing Mk beats his cr.mk
Standing Lk beats his Standing HK

Am I right here?

Last technical question, more general than anything: Street Fighter IV gets a record mode to practice reflexes and moves. Is there any way to simulate this in a SSFT or Remix environment? I’m trying to find a way that I can practice KKK backflip as a reversal upon recovery, but computer opponent is too stupid to get the point.

Thanks

Shari · January 25, 2010, 9:02am

Standing :mk: works.

Unsure about Standing :lk: though.
What match did you see those in ?

Wallclaw from opposite wall “Can” work if you predict they will jump to counter you but if not it’s just free damage for them since it whiffs unless they are standing and you do it from a specific distance.

Heavenly_Claw · January 27, 2010, 1:06pm

The standing Lk comes from this video, about :16 into it. It isn’t perfectly obvious, but it looks like Dictator was going to start a kick (Standing MK or HK? Look the same), and ARG intercepts with Standing LK. Is this correct or am I hallucinating?