What is everyone’s thoughts on the nerf on Vega’s backdash (old news). It was one of my favorite parts of Vega, and what I think made his defense bearable vs rushdown Shotos, and Divekick (unpunishable way to create distance after certain blocked attacks) characters.
What?
Are you sure it was nerfed ?
'cause I’ve practiced OS cHK against him, and I can tell you Claw’s backdash is almost as good as Rose’s one. And Rose’s is the best in the game… =p
Uh, it way freaking worse…it’s disgusting. He doesn’t have a divekick, fireball of any form, shoryuken or invincible reversal, or SPD. He loses his claw too which makes these things worse, and the times in which you can safely restore your claw (take off/put on) forgoes your chance to pressure you opponent.
I think you can see here at 0:29ish: [media=youtube]u29k-Qx8vkU[/media]
As far as Shotos, I meant that it would also help backdash at certain points and after frame advantage, to get out of their DP range so they can’t FADC, and you can punish. You barely have blockstring after all, and your punishes are not very scary nor oki pressure (you have to spend one bar, just to do cr.mk, c.mp xx EX.FBA…and the damage on EX.FBA was nerfed). And on top of that, you wouldn’t have the charge time anyways if you backdashed a light dp and tried punish. You can’t even safe jump them either.
He is not a top tier if that’s what you mean. Now he’s got godlike footsies, instant overhead, awesome vortex and good speed. So he’s got his pros too. =)
Personally, I do never reset my claw. I would prefer to pressure barehanded than to lose two seconds just to reset a claw I would pick sooner or later.
You can backdash their DPs at okizeme. And you can punish afterwards. After FADC, just flip 'cause no backdash in the game will get out fast enough (even Rose’s can’t). =)
Average damage of chargeless/meterless punish or a MP to HP DP is 240 (CH-ST), which is pretty damagin. With one meter, you can go up to 289 easily, with clHP cMP EX Izuna (no charge either).
Damn. And I who thought my youtube channel was internationally famous.
[media=youtube]ORqf0QGf8_Y[/media]
You do hurt my pride. é_è
Wow, those are some very nice setups. Too bad you don’t have SF4 for PC or else you could give tips n we could play.
If he just had older backdash, despite a lot of other problems, it would just give me a breather as a Vega player (i play him exclusively). And not that I would dare ask, but +1 frame for something on footsies would be amazing.
Also what’s the startup of crouch lk?
Dude, I dont know where you heard that the backdash was nerfed, but if I want something back its Cosmic Heel.
Actually, I still play like its the same move back from Super. Kara throw CH ST mix up is hella fun.
So… for me the nerf doesn’t exist. The nerf never happened.
It’s already happening. Two days ago, some Claw friends connected to my session one after another, and it became a 100% Claw night, mirror matchs only ! And there were some really good claws among them.
Definitely a fun evening. I’m thinking about uploading it. ^^
(PS : and I have SSF4 AE for PC).
Backdash isn’t a solution for everything. And you should watch for not using it too often, or you’ll get predictable. That’s the hard part of the game : knowing when to block, when to escape, and when to counter. =)
4 frames startup, 14 frames total duration. =)
There are some buffs which are pretty useful in SSF4/AE/2012, as PoM being an overhead, cMK being 6 frames startup and focus having a longer range. =)
CH was a bit broken in vanilla. I mean it was easily abusable, so much that others normals seemed useless in comparison. Why bother with sLK when CH would give you +3 ?
Against good players playing top tiers, I can’t trust CH as a pressure starter, 'cause a 3 frame jabs (or a shoryuken) would almost aways beat my own, on block. I see it as a deluxe chargeless punisher, as a whiff punisher, a quick forward way, and an occasional way to return to contact.
But some claw are able to land it meaty almost everytime (Gross-indecency for instance), and make an extended use of it (pressure/okizeme, and whatever you could imagine ^^).
It’s a matter of style, and it’s a good thing we can play our character in so much different ways. =)
Oh CH when my opponents mash you are my bestest most favoritest friend in the whole wide world.
Cosmic Heel was the tool that allowed people to be scary to tech our kara throw. Whats the problem of something being good? st.LK was there with the same purpose that it has now: Pressure coming of a 5 frame move a more importantly to deal with focus attacks, If someone focus your Cosmic Heel you are in a big trouble.
Vega needs pretty much everything he can get. CH and U2 from Super comes to mind.
Yeah, and he needs a cLK who connects on standing opponents. X_X
Seriously : why is it that cLP cLP cLK whiffs against standing ? What’s the purpose of a crouched kick who can’t hit someone standing ! =D
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above is quoted from a two different places. so some comments on these 2012 changes. if EX roll is +4, then how will c.mp connect? isn’t it 5 frames? I know st.hk will connect.
also CH seems to have “now more vulnerable to throws when performed close range”…is this true and was it always aerial? from the start, or how’d it work/hows it work now? I don’t know how accurate these posts were.
cr.MP was always 4 frames so it will connect now after a landed EX.RCF
The blockstun (safety) of df.HK (Cosmic Heel) has been tweaked a few times. In Vanilla it was quite safe and a killer frame trap, but when AE came out it became as bad as -4 at close range on block. In AE 2012 (current) at point blank when blocked it is now -3, but it has 5 active frames so if you hit with just the tip you are now at +1. The part of the move that is airborn has never changed I think.
Okay so could you also explain what the deal is with KKK on reversal/wake-up? I think I KKK’d and got thrown after being reset fromt he air or something and trying to do it. It was online so I can’t test but…when I KKK on wakeup vs enemy aerial attacking me it clearly works, so do aerial meaties not count or only ground meaties? How about throws and command throws?
For CHeel can you get +1 to -2 on enemy wakeup, like when they’re air resetting or at the very tip? How much frames you get at tip of it vs normal state character? Does it vary depending on if they’re stand or crouched? Certain moves frames change based on crouch or stand block.
Most characters, if they’re crouching, it’s very difficult (sometimes impossible) to hit with just the tip (the last active frame) because your foot is pretty high up and they’re pretty low. If it gets blocked point-blank, you’re at -3 which is bad because you can be punished with a fast jab combo. If they are getting up off the ground, you can attack with df.HK early so you’re close but still hitting with the last active frame. (Video of hitting with just the tip). You don’t HAVE to hit with just the tip for it to be useful, but hitting with the very first frame is a little risky. Hitting anywhere in the middle I find practical in terms of proximity and frame advantage.
Fact about the KKK and PPP flips: You cannot do them on the first frame after standing up or recovering. Capcom intentionally made it like this so you can’t use it to avoid meaty attacks (attacks already in the process of touching you). You’ll have to backdash or choose another defensive option in those situations.
[media=youtube]tLZMPO4VNtc[/media]
Darkaine21 and evilmajin are decent players on pc, but one thing I couldn’t figure out is in video at 21:53.
After evilryu jumps in, vega ultras towards the opposite wall. It seemed that evilryu blocked the first hit but got hit by the second,why is that?
Was the first hit put evilryu in the block string so he couldn’t block the coming slash behind him? Or the ultra was a crossup, evilryu should have blocked left?
I really think that Ultra hitted as an Overhead.
Cross Up doesn’t make sense as it will only work on the enemy wake up.
It kind of doesn’t make sense… but in some ranges it seems that you have to block high.
you are so genious, ultra1 will never be an overhead **cause it’s a midi attack!. **
Hard to tell what happened. Either he simply stopped blocking, or it indeed crossed him up. U1 can cross up outside of wakeup situations, but it cannot randomly be a high attack. The reason you feel like you have to block high is probably because you were actually crossed up when crouching.
A Midi attack? OMG!
Someone warn MP3, he is in danger!
On a serious note. I really doubt that U1 can cross up outside of wake up situations. Just look at the hitbox and the trajectory. Being an overhead in some situations also doesn’t make sense, though. But I remember that - I think it was Vegaman - also stated that once he used U1 and the guy got by it and he sworn that he was crouch blocking.
But judging by the fact that we had no input display on the video, the most likely is that he tried to jump away from the ultra. But the block stun from the knee part didn’t let him jump away in time. Even though its odd… I don’t think that the first hit has a good blockstun at all.