Mm i disagree about cr HP being slow to counter the tk legs. They are not instant, you see chun jump, you can react and punish. The move leave vega at low profile so you have a ton of priority for anti airing. You should try focusing on your fights more and see how viable it is to punish the tk legs
Imo the best character is either nash or japanese ryu. Chun falls a little short.
Pro Tip: Pro players don’t choose Claw if they want to make consistent bank.
In my view, it’s about risk/reward and tools. Necalli has everything except a traditional fireball and air throw, and that’s before I mention his infinite v-trigger and terrific damage.
Chun’s normals are just flat-out amazing, just like 3s, and her tools and great v-trigger help her extend her normals dominance.
Vega is a command grab character with excellent normals and damage, which cushions the difficulty of his disadvantged matchups. Ryu, Cammy and Laura play extremely well against Claw’s unique style. Of all the matchups, the risk/reward is tilted heaviest in their favour.
If you got Chun pressuring you on wake up and she does cr.lp>st.MP>instant legs - I highly doubt cr.HP is fast enough- unless you do it in anticipation not reaction.
As for tiers - yes Nash and Ryu have had more success because of the players behind them. But both those characters actually have weaknesses. Chun simply doesn’t in this game. That’s what makes her the best.
There is a huge frame gap between cr.lp, st.mp > tk legs. There is a big risk going on in there for chun. And if chun got into cr.lp range she already got in and you are losing so you lost the matchup from a different neutral game mistake than isnt auto/instant pressure as you are referring. Raw air legs in neutral is reactable and can perfectly be anti aired if you are focused.
Nash weaknesses are almost non existent. The character is the most solid and tricky to fight agaisnt in the game specially because of the 8 frame input lag. He lose if you get in, which is stupidly hard for a claw-on vega, and then clawless vega simply has no answers to slow fireball without meter and his jump ins are easily beaten by nash rainbow of antiairs. Same for random ex barcelona attacks.
To the people saying nash is not top tier, not only on this board btw. Lol. You obviously havent been frustrated by a tricky nash in tournament. the pros abogating in tier lists for nash being barely top 8, are disgusting. Its like they want the game to remain being shit thanks to the unfair stuff this character has and other flawed game mechanics.
The only thing Vega can really do about slow fireballs is walk forward and block them…
Or ex slice lol
I agree Nash is top tier but I don’t think he’s anywhere near as difficult against Vega as his other bad match ups. Nash has great movement but his normals aren’t that great so you can poke and keep him out forcing him gamble. He has to get in to do real damage which makes him vulnerable and unlike Mika or Laura, letting Nash get in once doesn’t really decide a round.
Vega literally has no answers to nash dash backward > slow fireball in a fast paced fight. The dash is too damn fast and slow fireball out means nash is winning.
The character completely control the fight pace agaisnt vega, if that is not enough for having a favorable matchup idk… you can also look at his other ridiculous features (like going out of the corner easily, fastest dashes in the game, stupidly ridiculous anti air options, flash kicks covering a good portion of screen, super fast overhead, critical being comboable from anything and doing a lot of unscaled damage, and his normals are actually better than clawless vega normals, i suggest hitting training mode with nash for half an hour, you will feel you are playing a rock (clawless vega) when you get down with nash movement options and spacing.
The only player i have seen doing actual work with vega agaisnt nash is Nemo, and thats because he is like a drunken master, absolutely unpredictable, doesnt care a lot about neutral game and has a good chunk of active setups to not lose the momentum once he get it, mixing them up continuously. But he commits like 400% more risks than pro nash players to get his wins so it is mostly a mindgame win for nemo, and doesnt warrant a favourable matchup for vega by using that style.
Yeah i agree. I will take a nash/ryu/ken over a laura/mika/cammy anyday
I think you’re all very wrong about Nash vs Vega being unfavorable, but i can see why people would think that…the Nash player definitely needs way less focus than you to win.
Yeah, Nash controls the pace of the fight effortlessly at long range(just like he does against almost every character in the game)but if there’s a character that can actually chase him, that’s Vega.
I agree. Nash is good, I think he’s up there on the tier list but I don’t think it’s that bad against Vega. You’re right Nash’s primary tool is mobility but Vega himself is probably the most mobile character in the game so like you said, he can chase him better than probably any other character. Vega’s walk speed and pokes can control Nash to a certain extent and make him take risks. His fast forward dash is a gamble against Vega’s pokes and the booms are only a big concern when he has v trigger imo. If a Nash depends on back dash too much he’ll put himself in the corner so they have to take risks to come in at some point.
Flash Eliminated LI Joe from summer X last sunday…(granted LI JOE made some mistakes that showed thar he isn’t so familiar with the match up)…personally just for the free pressure once you get in i don’t considere the match up as complicated as against say Ryu or any char with an invincible reversal…the thing that gets to my nerves is that just like ryu and many other chars Nash doesn’t need to use his ex specials for the most part an almost always will have super once in every round…Vega doesn’t build meter that fast and for the most part once you land that v-trigger into super there is a lot of scaling and the damage is kinda underwelming…i’m not a fan of “save meter for super” style of playing with Vega
Which makes me wish we could get ex.FBA after v.trigger.
[quote=“Moonchilde, post:872, topic:177721”]
[quote="vagabond zero;10961076"i’m not a fan of “save meter for super” style of playing with Vega[/quote]
That would be nice. Hell I keep forgetting you cant sometimes cause I dont have enough meter for CA, and I have found myself doing ex fba a couple times after v trigger only to shake my head.
So here is a new one. I havent seen much talk lately, but Juri seems to be giving me a bit more of a fit. Fought the same guy twice in ranked today and once she goes into Vtrigger, its just bs upon bs and I couldnt push a button.
You can ex fba after v-trigger against Zangief if you hit him out of his v-skill with it 
smh
@serpentaurus I agree that in the neutral cr.HP will blow up her instant air legs. That’s not what’s threatening about Chun at all - and at high level they won’t really ever do that. Chun will be in your face and no it doesn’t meant you lost the round. Cr.MP or cr.LP will beat out her instant air legs (on reaction) even when she’s in your face…that’s what I was talking about.
As for Nash - what you mentioned are his strong points but he does have blatant weakness. I’ll mention them - but being clawless is a must in this match-up:
His fireball is slow and if you stay in the right range, you can sweep (trade) on reaction to him throwing one. That gives Vega the advantage and if you’re already clawless, it’s time to make him dance.
Once Vega gets V-trigger, he can’t really throw fireballs anyway.
Vega can OS his wake up teleport and stay on him.
His V-reversal is punishable (even though I haven’t personally done enough testing with Vega).
His wake-up game is weak once he spends his V-meter.
His ex Moon is punishable by Vega.
There’s probably more but that’s quite a lot already. He’s dangerous when he has ex meter and V-meter…and you have to basically play really safe and wait for him to use them so you can block. After that, play smart and win.
I see this match-up as 5.5 for Vega - but the better player will always win anyway regardless of the match-up ratio.
Edit: Now give me a real list of weaknesses for Chun.
@af0 Good tips. What OS are you using to tag Nash’s wakeup teleport shenanigans? OS’ing EX FBA with a normal? If that’s the case, will EX FBA autocorrect for a cross-up tp? Gonna test in the lab tonight, but I’ll take any help I can get in the Nash mu (though not quite as painful as Ken, Ryu, Chun, or Laura).
I think you are confusing “taking a couple of risks” with weaknesses. The moves you listed, exmoon, vtrigger and vreversal are fantastic but with a small risk factor. Yes you can punish teleport with vega s.HK but the move is so fast… vreversal is punishable by vega? I know he leaves his legs uncovered for a couple of frames but can you punish it?. Exmoon is punishable if you have vreversal available, and vega has to be precise, i agree nash players shouldnt be using it agaisnt vega a lot, but it is still amazing when vega has no vreversal.
Also would like to see this OS agaisnt vtrigger, because nothing of the like has ever been discussed in this board. And pls… vtrigger is better used as a 50-50 setup with sonic booms, you are assuming the nash players will use it the gimmicky way. And even if it is the gimmicky way punishing it is hard.
Vega can take wayyyyyyy more risk and nothing is as rewarding as going out of the corner back to neutral game dominance for nash.
I believe the fight is at worst 6-4 but 6-4 is a lot of advantage in this game and having to chase a character to beat it means you will take more risks to win.
Also, the dev that decided nash shouldnt have any form of Crush counter’able anti air must be fired. There i listed one of your chun weaknesses that nash doesnt have.
You can experiment with different things. I remember trying V-trigger a long time ago (after throw). It has potential as an OS cos it autocorrects and there’s no motion input.
Been fighting Ken a lot recently. You really have to annoy him with mobility and st.MP (clawless) - his fireballs suck and his walk speed isn’t great. Exploit that. Vega can anti-air him pretty well with cr.HP and Cr.Vtrigger.
His normal>V-trigger cancel is pretty scary though…cos ur just frozen and can’t do anything if you don’t have V-meter. And his punish game is really good against Vega…which I kinda hate.