…nice…sounds like it could work for me…thanks
I think strong Bison’s will ultimately use his EX scissors for pressure… I mean even if they don’t cancel their buttons to normal scissors, they’re still charging and can unleash random Ex Scissors.
It’s positive on block…
Anyone else trash at the mirror? I’ve played a few hundred games of ranked at this point but I legit have run into another Claw like 5 times. I see Claw throwing out shit I know is plus but I push buttons lol…
Yep. I have no idea why no one plays this character when he’s so great. Probably due to the multiple stances…
In the mirror I go clawless immediately since it’s pretty easy to stuff his claw normals. Other than that idk, just play the player.
Also I suspect people don’t play Vega because he doesn’t have any easy-mode shit. Playing him probably requires more fundamental SF than most other characters in the cast atm. For all the bitching people do about him, if you lose to Vega the other guy straight up outplayed you.
Bad hurtboxes on claw means just pressing buttons without thought doesn work well. he also has no threat of a reversal ever and his V-Reversal puts him closer to the corner. Solid pressure you just have to block and tech. That eliminates 90% of players from even wanting to try him. Some people just need a DP or something because they can’t hold pressure. I was wrecking Poongko’s Fang (who is his secondary along with Ryu), he is good at offense, but lacking in defense without a threat of a dp. Some people need that. Also claw doesn’t have good combo’s off a cross up and it’s rare you ever get a jump in. It’s more punishes. Doesn’t make Vega bad, but it definitely isn’t a character for everyone.
Changing Vega from a charge character to a circular motions character is a total breath of fresh air to his style and I’m really enjoying this technical fighter.
I’ve heard from some people Vega beats nash but I really don’t believe so ATM. Anyone have any ideas? just lookin for some basic ideas here, on paper I really just don’t see how Vega beats Nash
Agreed!
Okay I now think Vega/Mika is 5-5. Changed my opinion on it. There is a range where her cr.hp will whiff and you can punish and you can react to charge hk with stand hk and get a crush counter into sweep. Pretty sweet range. Also the non charge HK will whiff at this range. Everyone should training mode it! =]. Mid screen its 6-4 Vega and corner its 6-4 mike I’d say. Also, risk reward in the corner is ridiculous… just take the throw until they do something stupid so that you can get out 0_o.
I also think vega beats nash btw. Check out Danke’s video you can v reversal his EX moonsault and get a great punish. Other than that, if you can keep your anti airs on point its tough for him to deal with you in neutral. You can react to the very beginning of his HP fireball and slide. You’ll get a trade but you get the knockdown so its in your favor.
@jlipassassin all Nash has to do is throw a slow sonic boom and the screen is his - Vega can do a random ex-roll to MAYBE catch his buttons. Punishing his Ex Moon is useful but it hardly affects the match-up. Vega has to work hard to beat Nash.
As for Mika…well we saw how badly people got beat up at FR just now…and that included characters with DPs. I’ve said it before, slap into corner carry and it’s game over for Vega.
I wouldn’t call V-Reversal of EX Moonsault to be a great punish; you only get a LK/LP from it and he’s in crouch state. The best benefit of V-Reversal against that move is that it stops momentum.
Nash’s defense is Vega tier when he is under pressure. The best thing for us is to try and keep him from chucking booms in the first place. Probably one of the characters we want to rush down.
Having a ton of trouble with bison, ken and cammy. Sort of gave up using any claw stance at all for these matchups. I find the hitboxes just suck too much and the risk is too high to poke with claw. Ken and bison play footsies with giant buttons that crush on counter so even if I outpoke them they only need one of theirs to hit for ridiculous damage. I can’t aa ken/cammy dive kick moves so whenever they feel like doing offense they just use that and get in for free. Bison constantly dashes through my limbs since active frames suck so bad on vega normals. I also can’t seem to figure out how to deal with low to the ground devils reverse spam, very difficult to air to air that and none of my ground normals work so far. I try to slide under some but bison clips me way too often so I quit trying. Any tips you guys got for these specific matchups, especially anti-airing these specific characters.
can’t help u with cammy but for bison and ken, knowledge of frame data really helps. Really you can punish their block strings with st lk if you aim for the correct strings. if you see bison doing st mp cr mp ,punish that in the middle with st lk. If they wisen up to it and use a 3 frame move you will trade probably. Obviously you stop trying to punish that after a few times but yeah. do’nt let them get free pressure.
As for devils reverse have you tried v reversal or dashing under? dash is pretty quick… if they are getting the devils reverse out of a block string, you should preemptively try to anti air that with like a j mk or maybe jump back something. (I play bison but to be fair i don’t have that much experience vega vs bison – these are just things i’ve tried in the matchup.)
Remember too that bison has slow buttons and no way to deal with your pressure. once you get that knockdown don’t let up. (easier said than done).
as for dash, i’m certain you can use something like cr mp to hit their recovery meaty.
@kensanity i’ll try dashing under, I typically don’t dash as much with vega since walk speed is so good. I press st.lk to disrupt a lot of characters but I feel like it’s a bad habit and also mistimed will get you killed really fast vs bison. I study frame data a lot and hitbox information and I was really upset when I saw hitboxes, not to hate on vega too much but I really dislike not having a normal that hits near/above your head. Online i’m at 4k lp and most decent players will have the tighter setups and better timed meaties. I don’t want to rely on spamming 3 frame move as a catch all to pressure. I would say I am a more reserved player I have a lot of experience playing grapplers and characters with no reversals/escapes from sf4 so I am very comfortable just blocking and punishing. I watched infiltration nash at final round and he had really good movement and general misdirection. I think maybe I should move around more just to make it harder for people to dial in the right ranges that give me problems.
Vega tier? You mean he has no options like Vega? Untrue as his V-reversal gets him out for free and his V-trigger is even better as it can be used defensively and offensively simulatounesly.
Yeah I meant it sucked. I don’t think Nash’s V-Reversal is that great as I was playing a Birdie who was blowing me up for doing it. The distance it puts him at doesn’t make it very hard to close the gap again, and if he uses it he is losing access to his trump card. His teleport is also hilariously easy to stuff isn’t it? And the aerial versions are beyond telegraphed.
@af0 just because nash has a boom doesn’t mean he controls the entire screen when he throws one. His HP fireball is a worse version of poisons HP fireball in SF4. It has HUGE start up. Stand at the right range, watch for his arm pulling back and slide. Trade, knockdown and now in your favor. Too many Vega’s play that match at the wrong range. You should be occupying that sweet spot where slide trades with fireball for the entire match and beating moonsaults on reaction. I haven’t lost to any Nash player online or in our local MA tournaments.
At BEST for Nash its 5-5… but slight edge to Vega imo. His knockdown pressure really isn’t scary at all and everyone should be reacting to V-trigger sillyness. Also, depending on the normal Nash V-reversals to get out of pressure, he can be punished. Tokido was punishing some of Infiltration’s V-reversals with fireball. This means Vega can get a slide and a knockdown out of it.
I agree with @kensanity on the bison matchup. You need to know frame data for every normal. You can press st.lk after df.hp and st.mp and he will only win if he mashes his fastest normal. Target combo is -5. In general I think Vega makes this matchup even with his superior walk speed. Mashing st.lk isn’t a bad habit unless you continue to do it after your opponent punishes you for it. If the bison continues to do block strings with massive gaps, then abuse it. If they adapt, then switch it up.
As for the cammy match up, we can keep up with her with respect to movement/neutral game. React to normal divekicks with anything and if you see yellow just neutral jump if you are at the right range. They shouldn’t be getting away with any hooligan things in neutral since we can neutral jump into full punish. Not sure about the numbers on this match up. It seems even-ish. This is a matchup where I would suggest being more cautious with st.lk as most of her frame traps will blow it up. After f.hk, definitely challenge it with st.lk. Good cammy players won’t do that on block often. I like to rush down in this matchup, keep her in block stun and force the player to make a decision.
@jlipassassin What are you using to beat Nash’s moonsault slashes? I have trouble consistently anti-airing him out of it.
I can see how if you anti-air that and stay at sweep range, you can pretty much cover all his options. Especially since his walk speed is awful.
And what do you use to check Nash’s teleports? (V-trigger)