Vega Match-Ups Thread: I Only Understand the Pain of Being too Strong and Beautiful

[Vegasz]

My take on Vega’s match-ups from the little experience I’ve had so far, mostly playing ranked matches against a diversity of opponents in terms of skill:

Unfavorable:
Ryu and Cammy

Even:
Bison, Chun-Li, Dhalsim, Karin

Favorable:
Rest of the cast

Biggest problem when fighting Ryu is that his fireballs stop your mid-range game. You can only punish them if you read them, Vega’s jump has the exact same duration as a Hadouken’s full animation. Therefore, if you want to play safe and get rid of the unsafe things, you just have to block those projectiles most of the times until you can either poke with st.MP/cr.MP, or mix your forward movement with shimmies and make him whiff something. Dashes are good as well, just make sure he’s not in a fireball mood. When you have meter, risk an occasional EX Roll. If he doesn’t jump or V-Reversal you, he gets carried all the way to the corner, which is nice.

His low normals have quick recovery, so you most likely won’t be able to whiff punish with claw st.HP, which sucks. Baiting DP’s is nice though, if you have a meter you can go for 330 damage + Okizeme, which is pretty neat.

Also, *** his jump arc is stupid lol. I can’t anti-air it with st.HK most of the times, and have to rely on either j.MK or Air-Throw.
It doesn’t mean you simply get rekt automatically, but you have to read way harder when you play this matchup.

As for Cammy, I feel she can just EX Dive Kick Vega all day, and once she’s in, her offense is above average. Your best bet for fighting her air approaches is to simply prevent her from jumping, by throwing repetitive long ranged pokes and an occasional st.HK. If she gets the air though, it seems like you can only try to clawless cr.HP her dives, use j.MK or try a read with an EX FBA.
Just like Ryu, I don’t find her too easy to whiff punish, but if you can get a good read, the round swings heavily in your favor.
Also, make sure you store a bit of your focus on neutral to punish those V-Skills or block long-ranged Spiral Arrows. Controlling stuff in the air is important, but she has some pesky approaches on the ground as well.

[Arlieth_Tralare]

It’s Graham Wolfe’s opinion that Cammy is actually a FAVORABLE matchup for Vega. Honestly I’m still confused on this one but he swears by it.

EX Dive Kick is a serious problem. You may need to V-R those. On the other hand you can pre-emptively stuff long range Spiral Arrows with c.LP or c.LK.

Cammy’s normal dive kicks can be jabbed for free.

[Spinning_Beat]

When you V-R you should definitely do the backwards version, right?

[vagabond_zero]

No love for jmp as an anti air?..is one of vega’s air to air normals (5 frames with claw…4 frames clawless) and as seen in the hitboxes images is one of the very few moves of vega which hitbox extends past its hurtbox…all that been said i can’t bring myself to use it…jmk just comes more naturaly

[DrKatz]

No love for jmp as an anti air?..is one of vega’s air to air normals (5 frames with claw…4 frames clawless) and as seen in the hitboxes images is one of the very few moves of vega which hitbox extends past its hurtbox…all that been said i can’t bring myself to use it…jmk just comes more naturaly

I was talking with my friend about Vega’s air to airs today and I feel j.MP is only to swipe people out of the air above you. It’s hard to explain what I mean, but it’s been beaten in many scenarios when I’ve used it.

I find his best air to airs are his air throw, j.MK and j.LK (which comes out incredibly fast). Jump backwards s.HP is pretty useful too for controlling a lot of space.

Also, I’m glad people finally are starting to stop complaining about Vega. I would put him at high A-tier. And he definitely has the potential to contend with all the S-tiers.

[RagingStormX]

There are a few situations that are totally worth V-Reversal:

[list]
[*] Blocking an EX Moonsault by Charlie (2nd hit)
[/list]

You never should V-Reversal that move. Nash only has at best 4 frame moves and Moonsault is only +1, mash s.lk and you’ll beat anything that isn’t a light attack. Light attacks will trade.

[af0]

There are a few situations that are totally worth V-Reversal:

[list]
[*] Blocking an EX Moonsault by Charlie (2nd hit)
[/list]

You never should V-Reversal that move. Nash only has at best 4 frame moves and Moonsault is only +1, mash s.lk and you’ll beat anything that isn’t a light attack. Light attacks will trade.

I wouldn’t say never. You can V-reversal the EX version and punish him pretty well, if done early enough.
I guess if you’re too late to react, then yes - it’s not worth doing it late since we have st.Lk.

[kidgogeta]

I don’t have anything I firmly consider a bad match up for Vega yet, except Ryu.

• His jump arc is such BS. You legit can’t contend it, so he doesn’t have to show any respect. On the other side of it you can not jump at all because lol shoto AA.

-The risk reward of trying to EX Roll / V - SKILL through a fireball is skewed in Ryus favor.

• His 7 fame sweep Crush Counters all your best buttons and you can only punish it with sweep if he spaces it.

• Off any hard knockdown he can corpse carry to the corner from mid with his amazing forward dash.

• His forward walk is faster than Vegas back walk.

[af0]

I don’t have anything I firmly consider a bad match up for Vega yet, except Ryu.

• His jump arc is such BS. You legit can’t contend it, so he doesn’t have to show any respect. On the other side of it you can not jump at all because lol shoto AA.

-The risk reward of trying to EX Roll / V - SKILL through a fireball is skewed in Ryus favor.

• His 7 fame sweep Crush Counters all your best buttons and you can only punish it with sweep if he spaces it.

• Off any hard knockdown he can corpse carry to the corner from mid with his amazing forward dash.

• His forward walk is faster than Vegas back walk.

I find Ryu one of the easier characters to AA. st.HK is really good and even gets you crush combos. You just have to stand in the right range and u must air grab him when ur too close for st.HK to work.

His sweep is good but a big gamble. Vega can punish with cr.MP into V-trigger/super.

I think at high level this match-up is played 95% on the ground, assuming the Ryu knows how to DP consistently.

St.MP and blocking his sweep can get you far in the match.

He has a strong meaty game so your defence has to be on point. His overhead is annoying to get hit by, but nothing huge unless it causes stun. His throw game isn’t crazy good as he has to walk pretty close.

[DrKatz]

Seems like we should be able to punish his sweep with ours according to the frame data. I feel Ryu is a tough MU too, but I have a habit of jumping too much.

I think if we stay grounded and creep past his fireball range, it’s achievable. Just be super careful of getting baited and crush counter sweeper by him.

[jlipassassin]

I disagree with Ryu. Imo Vega beats Ryu. He beats him in claw on and claw off. I agree with ryu is much easier to anti air than other characters. you can react to fireball with MT. Its too easy for vega to control the match for ryu to go 5-5. I think its 6-4 for vega.

Now ken for example probably goes 5-5 with vega. Weird hitboxes, weird mobility, ex air tatsu etc. A mobile vega outfootsies both shotos and can pressure them well and punish them hard if they DP. Also, make sure to react to jump ins and v reversal ones that you don’t react to in time.

Vegas bad matchups? Chun, Mika and Karin IMO. If anyone wants to run sets btw my tag on CFN is JMan3L =]. currently trying to work on those 3 matchups and the mirror.

[Spinning_Beat]

Speaking of Ryu and Ken. Doesn’t s.HK register as a CC if you hit them during SRK’s recovery frames? I swear I had it happen once or twice.

[DrKatz]

I agree that Chun and Mika are bad. But I’m not sure about Karin. I think it’s pretty even. Just a battle of who can out footsie the other.

[jlipassassin]

The problem with Karin is that her st.lk xx ex dash upper whatever that move is stuffs almost every normal in claw stance… I think she does better in neutral. Vega beats Karin by rushing down. My training partner plays Karin and we both place pretty well in our local tournaments. Against her you need to stay mobile, anti air and rush down.

[RagingStormX]

There are a few situations that are totally worth V-Reversal:

[list]
[*] Blocking an EX Moonsault by Charlie (2nd hit)
[/list]

You never should V-Reversal that move. Nash only has at best 4 frame moves and Moonsault is only +1, mash s.lk and you’ll beat anything that isn’t a light attack. Light attacks will trade.

I wouldn’t say never. You can V-reversal the EX version and punish him pretty well, if done early enough.
I guess if you’re too late to react, then yes - it’s not worth doing it late since we have st.Lk.

Very true, but I meant more of a “I’m panicked I’m blocking this” type of way. Definitely worth using V-Reversal for punishes.

[Arlieth_Tralare]

There are a few situations that are totally worth V-Reversal:

[list]
[*] Blocking an EX Moonsault by Charlie (2nd hit)
[/list]

You never should V-Reversal that move. Nash only has at best 4 frame moves and Moonsault is only +1, mash s.lk and you’ll beat anything that isn’t a light attack. Light attacks will trade.

I wouldn’t say never. You can V-reversal the EX version and punish him pretty well, if done early enough.
I guess if you’re too late to react, then yes - it’s not worth doing it late since we have st.Lk.

Very true, but I meant more of a “I’m panicked I’m blocking this” type of way. Definitely worth using V-Reversal for punishes.

I stand corrected on the post-block situation though due to the frame data. He really can’t do anything afterwards that’s threatening.

[Arlieth_Tralare]

Speaking of Ryu and Ken. Doesn’t s.HK register as a CC if you hit them during SRK’s recovery frames? I swear I had it happen once or twice.

All invincible reversal moves like uppercuts have counter-state on the entire move, including recovery.

[vagabond_zero]

So what should i do after i block one of Bison’s st HK?..should i just drop the control and wait for the next match?..the amount of pressure Bison can’t generate is amazing…i feel like Bison players only need to press buttons…i know one of his scissors kicks is negative on block and i can punish with clp>roll (i need to get into the habit of canceling light roll into super but always feels like a waste unless it wins you the match) …gonna have to get in the habit of using v-reversal more…any special or normal of Bison that i could punish using v-reversal?

[vagabond_zero]

Edit…i meant Bison “can” generate

[Time_Mage]

All his scissors are negative, but only one is actually punishable (and only if spaced incorrectly). Since he has no invincible on startup moves, you can always press a light button to get him off you and hopefully start your own pressure. I also like to V-Reversal in his cr.MP after the blocked HK, you can at least throw him if he cancelled the MP into the scissors.