M. Bison is a charge character and has one of the most relentless rushdowns in SFV thus far, imo.
What Bison does isn’t rushdown, in my opinion, it’s corner pressure. A rushdown character should have an easy way to get in, and then maintain the pressure, but Bison has limited ways to safely get in, and then the pressure is only scary in the corner. He’s a monster, but not a rushdown monster.
I only got to fight a few Grandmaster Bisons (and christ they scare the SHIT out of me), but AFAIK all Scissor Kicks are safe, EX is +, and they are fast and have really good range. There’s your in.
And it’s not like he doesn’t have that awesome EX fireball to help him get in by making sure you stay put. And his V-Trigger dash.
Bison is in a bad spot after a blocked SK. You get to pressure him for free and it isn’t like he has a DP to make you guess.
I was a GM Bison on the beta with probably a 90-95% win rate and that’s because people just let me freely press buttons because they simply would not stop mashing during obvious frametraps. That and I think someone teched a throw after a hit MK SK once.
Bison had solid buttons, but he can’t make the most of them until he’s got you cornered. The places he has an advantage are in the corner, after a MK/EX SK, after a slide, and after a back throw. Characters with either a solid defense (Birdie) or who have good buttons and walkspeed (Chun, Cammy) can dominate him in neutral. Nash is all about if you let him get in and Ryu got whooped.
Given that I was a grandmaster Bison, I agree with you. The scissors is a great way to not only get, but also apply pressure. His corner pressure is definitely his strong suit offensively, but he can you pressure outside of the corner, especially with his trigger activated. I’d consider him a rushdown character, personally. His style rushdown is just different than motion characters, such as Ken or Cammy.
I don’t see how you can consider a move that’s negative on block to be a rushdown tool, honestly.
Each blocked scissor kick puts you in a situation in which if the opponent presses a fast poke button, and you do as well, you will lose the trade. And taking into account that Bison has no reversal move with invulnerability frames on startup, your opponent literally has got nothing to lose by pressing the buttons.
This effectively means that whenever a SK is blocked, Bison has to switch to a defensive game, unless the opp doesn’t wish to go on the offensive and take the momentum. Only way to change this, is to space the SK so that pokes won’t have enough reach to touch you, and hence you can be free to go for a long range button, another SK or another good special, fearing only reversals, which are a gamble from your opponent. This means you’ll be playing footsies with your opponent, trying to get him to the corner, in which you can abuse some stuff for good pressure.
Please do explain how that can be considered a rushdown playstyle, because I’m pretty curious.
I think the best way to describe is that Bison can rushdown, but he’s not a rushdown character. Meaning he falls more in line with a mid range character with pressure options.
He’s a corner pressure character, not rushdown at all. He wants to walk you into the corner using strong pokes and anti-airs, and once you’re there his slow walk speed doesn’t really matter much and he can abuse you with his solid buttons. He will still have a hell of a time opening you up in the corner, but you’ll have trouble hurting him back if he’s got a life lead. In VT he gets something of a tick throw ability and a bit of mixup thanks to his teleport dash, although I do feel that his backdash should also be a teleport so people can’t just DP on reaction to a teleport.
Vega confirmed for the next beta test… If I only had a PS4. I have a job now, so I’m halfway there…
Deciding between using Vega or Mika for first 2 days of beta. Then going to Karin for day 3 and 4. Vega or Mika hmmmm
I’ll be all Vega with some Rashid dabbling coz I’m on PC so I won’t get much time. Mika can wait for now >:/
I am looking forward to all of your impressions on Vega, and hopefully some footage of players who are actually familiar with the character.
Oh god two weeks I can’t wait that long
I need to save up for either a better computer or a PS4 already. For now though my friend’s PS4 will work, just gotta renew the plus subscription for her.
Nice to see you again man.
And yeah I’ll be posting some Vega matches.
so i had alot of time with the latest build last weekend at EB games expo aus, played mostly ryu and the majority of the stuff i discovered is already mentioned here but ill note a few things
- st.HK as an AA is epic, especially when 3/4 of the time when i hit it it was a crushcounter which led to any DP midscreen, tatsu in corner (assuming, im yet to test) and i was even able to connect sweep off of it too so normals confirmed will work.
- walkup cr.MK is ass, dashup cr.MK much stronger
- sweep reallllly bad on block, and in general
- st.LP really shit range
- st.LK xx fireball was decent
- st.HP not sure what purpose this serves st.HK is better, st.HP slightly quicker i felt
- st.HK to punish DP whiff is godlike as whiffed dps are now counterhit, crazy damage
- im fairly certain i recall both stand teching and backdashes being hit by st.HK were also crushcountered, will have to check through some of my recordings.
- i felt in a couple of instances that i used b.HK it actually stuffed a DP O_o, saw the windup animation at the opponents feet, not sure if its correct again im confident i can find recordings, it may have just been the opponent used the wrong DP but he won the tournament i entered so i assume he knew his stuff, i came second.
- st.HK moving forward is awesome and whiffing on crouchers, if it hit crouchers this would make this move so much easier to punish on block, when my opponent was in the corner and afraid of my frame traps and counterhits i used st.HK to both fish for counterhits/catch nuetral jumps and advance on the opponent so i could throw.
- solar plexus feels prettymuch the same as sf4, at times it did feel like i was losing more than winning button wise on block which correlates with the frame data shown in this thread earlier on.
I believe solar plexus is negative on block. I got grab after it all the time.
Fireballs are shit.
What Ryu needs is a super slow lp fireball to help his new in-your-face-heavy-hitting playstyle.
If he could use the fireball in order to approach and mix his opponent up, the character would be much stronger.
What? The Ryu thread has been bumped!
Well okay, let me think. I feel Ryu is in need of some minor buffs in SFV. His pokes don’t reach as far as the other folks and his fireball quite frankly sucks ass. It’s relatively slow to come out and probably the easiest to counter as far as all the anti fireball moves go in this game. Cammy can easily see Ryu flinch and v skill through it, birdie can easily hcb+k over it, forget about the other characters that have been introduced since the beta. HIs fireball is awful. He doesn’t make up for it with his normals. HIs standing and crouching mp suck, his c. mk sucks, Ryu just sucks period.
He just needs for his c. mk to reach a little further and for his mp hitboxes to be a bit better. Such simple minor changes. Then he’d be set. He does high damage. I’m fine with him doing that damage too. Just bump up those hitboxes and he’ll be straight.
Here’s what I think he needs to be better (yeah I know I always complain about him):
-Hadoken damage increased from 60 to 70; pushback increased
-Cr.MK damage increased from 50 to 60; hitbox increased in width; able to combo out of VT cancel
-cr.HK pushback increased on block
-St.MP pushback reduced on block
-St.HK hitbox increased downward to hit crouching
-SPS blockstun increased to be 0F on block
-Parry recovery reduced by 2F after success
The damage buffs are just because those moves are pathetic in that department; but the better hitboxes, pushback, and parry buffs are the things that be actually needs to be really good. Everything else would just be QOL buffs really.
I really don’t think he should have this stuff.
Sure he would be better with what you propose than without it, but I think Ryu’s weaknesses are hitboxes not damage or pushback.
He’s got the damage and I never felt that my problems as ryu were pushing people back when I touched them. If his c. mp and s. mp reached a little further hitbox wise, and his c. mk reached a bit further he’d be doing just fine. Basically what I said above. He’s a complete character that just needs those very minor adjustments to be good.
I don’t want to do c. mk xx fireball. I just want to do c. mk. Ryu gets MURDERED in footsies right now, or he did in the beta anyway. His buttons don’t reach as far as other people and people just shove him into the corner too easily. The other 5 characters, chun, charlie, cammy, bison, and birdie…they can just walk him into the corner with their superior hitboxes/normals. Cammy’s s. mk is better than ryu, Birdie’s s. mp is better than ryu, charlie’s c. mk is better than ryu, so is chun’s s. mp, so is bisons everything (jesus bison can just do c. mp over and over and that owns Ryu). It’s just fucked, Ryu is gimped atm.
Ryu desperately needs improved hitboxes.