Well that really sucks. Granted claw s.HP is looking like his best normal right now and they might’ve felt that it was too good setting him up for his best combos, but I don’t see the problem giving him a little consistency on his standing-only combos. He should have at least one good force-stand tool if one of his main combos whiffs crouching.
And I just hate having to confirm if they were standing TBQH. I’ve already wasted a bit too much meter trying to combo crouching shotos and females in SF4.
I know it’s a bit early to be discussing matchups, but does anyone else think that Karin will be a hella bad matchup? On paper it sure sounds like it: rushdown character with good walkspeed and a sweet dash. I bet it’ll be a pretty bad matchup for the same reason Abel is for Vega in SF4. It definitely will be winnable obviously, but just like fighting Abel before, Vega will have to play absolutely perfect and never make any mistakes or guess wrong. One dash or EX CoD that you didn’t predictively counter and it might just be over. You can’t ever let Karin anywhere near you, but she’s very capable at getting in.
But at least the higher damage works both ways in SFV and will probably relieve bad MUs: Vega actually has good offensive potential and rushdown in SFV, and good damage like everybody else, so he can probably just suddenly close out rounds off a couple of good reads. More damage when you do good things = less chances for you to lose. Karin can too, 1 or 2 wrong moves and Vega is stunned and going to die, but now it works both ways. Instead of like SF4 where usually just the guy rushing Vega down had good damage while Vega always has very meh damage potential. Winning slowly, losing suddenly. Now we can ALSO win suddenly.
Unless Karin can roll through pokes, then I don’t think it’s an issue. You also have a command grab now, so put away the claw and grab her dashes. Get up in that ass and stay there. Historically, that’s what Vega has always been great at besides being a poke monster. Factor in no focus attack, there really is no reason why Karin wouldn’t be forced to play the footsie game, unlike Abel who has tools around the footsie game. On top of that, Karin gets dash happy? Walk forward roll. We don’t have to sit on our asses anymore to access our specials. Use cr.LP and cancel to EX FBA or FBA. Maybe s.MK or s.LP. If s.LK can be canceled, that would be a prime tool too since no more links, just hit confirm roll.
Have to stop thinking about SF5 like it’s SF4. It’s not. Things we had problems with in SF4 won’t necessarily apply in SF5. We have tons of tools in this game, plus people actually have to work around his pokes now and are forced to play footsies. I’m not worried about bad match ups in this game, I’ll deal, and I really can’t see Vega having any real bad match ups this time around.
Maybe, it’s honestly too early to say. Vega’s rushdown capabilities look mediocre so far. I come from the anime FGC, but giving someone one command throw doesn’t suddenly turn them into a rushdown character. And I’ve yet to see any other rushdown capabilities from non-claw stance. He still seems primarily footsie oriented.
If Vega gets great damage off his pokes, and they don’t take away his ability to convert to EX FBA from several of his normals, then he has a good chance.
His stance switch remains largely unexplored and will probably stay that way until the game drops, even so I don’t think it is meant to be a rushdown mode or whatever, I just can’t see Vega as a rushdown character but we shall see.
As far as matchups go…waaaay to early to discuss this, we don’t know the full roster yet but I will say the absence of hard knockdown bs from SF4 will be breath of fresh air for the spanish ninja.
He easily looks like he will have rushdown options now even if he isn’t a rushdown character. In the way that V Trigger Chun Li is much more suited for rush when activated.
Well, the developers mentioned in an article that Vega without claw can be a “rushdown” character. So at least the developer’s are claiming it. Can’t find the link to the article at the moment. So I hope that’s the case.
But valid point, SFV has far different mechanics than IV, so we’ll see how strong his options are with the new mechanics and changed mechanics.
If you’re going to quote, quote the whole post, or at least that sentence. Or I’ll have no idea what I meant, especially out of context, lol.
I was lazy when I wrote that, but I meant if he can convert into FBA and Ex FBA off of several viable normals, he’ll have a good chance of being a solid character this time around. Instead of slightly underwhelming, like he was in USFIV. Although I still feel he is underrated in USFIV. I’m still waiting to see if EX FBA > Claw Attack > V-Trigger > Critical Art would all combo. If so that would be absolutely amazing.
It’ll probably be a while until we see his full potential. But I really would love rushdown Vega. He seems like he may be a primarily defensive character until he scores a knockdown. Then he can claw off and go crazy with mixups. Or at least that’s how I hope he turns out!
Won’t work because you need full bars for CA, and using EX to start off uses a bar. You can do regular FBA v.trigger CA. Vega has had rush down to a degree in most every game except SF4. His rush down was more like a poke down though, slowly pushing the opponent to the corner and keeping them there with amazing normal attacks. He isn’t so much a defensive character as he is a hit and run character and constant poke pressure. You won’t need to knock down to switch the claw off, you can do it mid attack to mix it up. He’s going to be pretty technical and interesting to play. I can’t wait.
Yeah, that definitely won’t work, but there’s a chance that EX FBA > Claw Attack > V-Trigger > EX FBA will. Someone tried the character in the first build not long after the Gamescom reveal, and posted his impressions here and there was also a video of him playing. I asked him if EX FBA after V-Trigger could work, since I saw him trying it in the video, and he said that he managed to pull it off later, so it worked. There’s no video confirmation but if it is indeed possible, it’s a nice option.
Thanks for the information. Like I said, I come from the anime FGC, so I’m not too familiar with Vega’s iteration in USFIV, or the past games. Pressure works much differently in SF, as it’s comprised mostly of pokes instead of endless pressure (Zato/Eddie in GG).
I wonder if FBA > V-trigger > CA will work then, or if the scaling will somehow let them drop out. It would be cool to do FBA > V-trigger > FBA (Izuna Drop) as well. I think his damage will be very high unless they nerf it preemptively.
You guys don’t realize how much raw EX-FBA sucks if you expect it for anything other than combo video or post stun stuff. That move loses to everything.
Guys, guys, I didn’t say Vega was a rushdown character, I didn’t even mention his command grab. But he definitely has the ability to do it. People forget that his original two SF2 special moves, the roll and the walldive, were designed to keep him aggressive. And in SFV they’re back up to snuff: the roll looks amazing so far, and ambiguous crossup walldives are good again, being safeish and giving you link combos if they hit. Tho it looks like Izuna drop is actually kind hard to land, I still see it as a massive upgrade from SF4 walldives.
Further, as said, stance switch is pretty unexplored, but it looks pretty good to me. You switch really fast, so you can cancel stuff like Claw Stand Fierce to make it safe or even +. (If only he could cancel into it off of c.MP!!!) And looking at the thread, someone mentions that clawless stance doesn’t actually do any less damage than clawed, and seems to have better frame data on the normals. Like no claw c.MP linking on hit and perhaps being + on block. And yea, he has a command grab. It might not be amazing, but it’ll serve its purpose in getting some damage on a read because you KNOW they’re just gonna sit on d/b and not hit buttons. The command grab isn’t the center of Fei Long and Yun rushdown either in SF4, but it has its specific use when the time comes. And there’s some new stuff like his V-Skill and that new Claw special move. If you walk up to people a lot, they might start trying to poke to counter it, in which case you might read that and use either Matador Turn or the new special to beat out the poke.
All this points toward Vega actually being capable of being aggressive and suddenly closing out matches instead of just dancing with his opponent. In every game where Vega is good, he was capable of getting in that ass if he wanted to, and I don’t just mean ST walldive abuse.
I would say that people have their minds stuck on SF4, where due to being mediocre he played strictly footsies and pokes, but that’s not even true. His amazing kara-throw, matchup-specific Izuna loops, solid damage for 1 bar spent and some good frame data on a couple normals definitely gave him some nice offensive potential when the time called for it. I could get so much mileage on just walking up and doing a mixup on the threat of a kara-throw. Do the throw, or crouch jab, or crouch MK, or just poke, or Cosmic Heel… I hate to see that command normal go!
Did anyone see the article about SFV being made for people who “can’t play fighting games”. Completely out of context, but it had me slightly concerned. A fighting game shouldn’t be made for people who can’t play them, since those people could just go play another game, haha. It just doesn’t make sense intuitively.
I’m all for lowering the barrier of entry to fighting games and increasing the scene in the FGC. But I hope the game isn’t dumbed down enough that it lacks depth. What are everyone’s thoughts so far on the mechanics of SFV? I know it may be too early to speak definitively, but general thoughts on the information we have thus far.
That’s their word usage, but I think its more marketing spin than something that you can take as verbatim.
People who “can’t” or suck at fighting games shouldn’t kid themselves. They’re still going to get rocked often in this game. Its not as gimmicky as other fighting games and you still have to learn to use the V Skills and Triggers in an effective matter. They will still drop the links and combos that are in the game as well.
The game will still have depth. The games combo execution arguably has the same level of difficulty as a majority of the bnbs in 3S and that is considered a game with a lot of depth at this point. I think they realistically they’re trying to push the idea that the game will be easier to pick up and play since the basics of the game won’t be as execution heavy. Its just you will still have to learn neutral game and match ups which will still take a while if you’re new.
SFxT is a better example of a game truly made for people who can’t play fighting games. They created a scheme to purchase gems that could do things like auto block and auto tech throws for you. Stuff that allows the game to play for you which SFV does not have. It’s easier to get into, but it doesn’t play for you.
Gootecks putting in some work with Vega, definitely playing very…Gootecks-like, you can tell he is a bit unfamiliar with the character in general.
I noticed he uses st. strong as a poke more often than most players I’ve seen, but the biggest highlight is on match 2 3rd round, he switches stances and anti-airs Ryu with cr.fierce twice, and very reliably.