None of Vega’s special moves are so powerful or good that they require being charge for the sake of balance. RCF/CT can be poked out of at the right distance so usage up close where Vega will never be static and charging is kind of important. How many people do RCF from a distance in 4 (or any other game for that matter? Roll cancel aside) the same way Blanka or Balrog does ball or rush punch from a distance? None, because RCF has no priority. If you get it priority to stuff attacks clean as it moves forward, it would be broken. The design theory is to make the special useful, and being up close in the neutral is where Vega is strong, yet also not charging. Having access to the move will be important.
Same with FBA. What utility does it have outside of a combo and on top of that, as an EX move? None. While I still think FBA is probably going to be his worse special in the game, the fact you can walk forward and FBA over someone as they recover from an attack opens up some combo possibilities for the risk of eating an AA as you come down. EX.FBA on the other hand, will have good whiff punish utility since you can walk forward and hit them on the way up as they recover.
In SF4, Vega has pretty shitty special attacks and was still a charge character. His specials were highly lacking, unless they were used mid combo and using meter. There really isn’t much you can do to buff the non-EX versions to make them useful without making them OP. Perhaps they’ve considered this and figure maybe make them accessible on the fly while he retains forward momentum and neutral game? That’s a pretty good buff without making hit boxes too strong and shutting out other character’s options completely.
Some of you need to start thinking out of the box.
Ono said he wants that reaction from the players so who knows, maybe ryu won’t be the only 3s character they add and slickly shoehorn as the sf3 slot filler for the initial cast. [sf1/2/3 slots filled by you guessed it, one character.]
Prove me wrong ono. Chunli conveniently fills in the 3s gap too, prove me wrong ono. Ken as well, prove me wrong ono.
EX FBA was and is one of the best specials because it sweep punishes so many moves from the position Vega should be.
The fact that SF5 still has a type of EX FBA that hits, and is made a quick input means that his normals have to suffer for the sake of balance. He won’t control the same space nor will he have the same meta, because giving him the same ability to control the space in front of him and a move like EX FBA will shut down characters. Balance is something Capcom has consistently shown to prioritize when making a fighting game since SF4 to SSF4, and this means normals and space control will suffer for the sake of balance.
Think outside the box? You aren’t already doing that, you want to use Vega’s special attacks in the same way everybody else uses them.
Scarlett Terror needs invul frames like Guile’s and should be like Guile’s.
RCF needs to be a pressure tool, when it isn’t a pressure tool but a positioning tool to force movement while blocking
Sky Claw has and always been shitty since SF2, so not like that matters, that’s the only one you get
No that’s not needed because using old paradigms from SF2 and SF4 are already useless thanks to the quick input moves he has. RCF doesn’t even push back, and it looks like it works more like a combo ender similar to cannon spike. His meta has already drastically changed with something as simple as input commands.
Vega will stay motion, Combofiend is just talking out of his ass about it. Capcom has always talked and said about this, but they aren’t going to listen to players over this.
in SSF4 Vega could do cr.mk - cr.mp xx EX FBA consistently and was one of his best footsie tools. Not many characters could challenge a cr.mk when thrown out and was a powerful tool for punishing dumb movement or taking advantage of Cosmic Heel throw conditioning. At a range that cr.mk traditionally controls, being able to do a 270+ damage of a 2 link frame for only minimal use of bar was a pretty powerful tool
They aren’t going to give him that same damage output or at least, or still allow him to have the same geometry on his normals if you can do it for free without charge.
[list]
[] I love that he still has his air grab. Great tool of his.
[] Matador Turn seems good, gives Vega another mind game tool.
[] I like that the flips have to be on guard now. Negates the urge to do them so frequently. Hopefully they aren’t as easily punished as they were in SFIV.
[] I love that the Izuna Drop after FBA has a grab motion now, makes grounded Izuna Drops a lot easier than they were in SFIV.
[] Not sure how I feel about the stance change being such a casual input (Quarter Forward). Cool with the new RCF and Aurora Spin Edge.
[] Glad they took out Scarlet Terror, that shit was useless anyway. If you’re gonna give us a “DP” (or lack thereof), don’t insult us with that shit we got in SFIV :lol:
[/list]
I didn’t mention ST because I’ve already gone over why it would be a far superior tool as a motion input even without iframes than as a charge one. Also, as shitty as it is, I do find it useful in most of its forms. It’s good for meterless knock down combo setups from a jump in and for an early AA. Just about any attack eats it for free since the hit boxes on it are far too small with no priority at all. That’s why you have to use it to hit under the opponent, otherwise, free Thanksgiving Stuffing 364 days a year.
On the other hand, it also isn’t in SF5, so there is no real reason to make the comparison. I think in SF5 we can safely block jump in attacks and flip out of them or Matador Turn since they’re invulnerable to high attacks. We actually have real close range AA options now and a couple of get off me tools. Throw on top of that the fact we have a lot of keep out tools, and I’m not worried about not having a DP. IMO, the only real pressure Vega will have to deal with in SF5 is going to be low meaty setups that lead into throw. He can Matador jump ins, overheads, anything you have to block high, so no longer worried about crouching jab pressure. I’m even wondering if tick-SPD will be a thing against him. Block the attack, KKK flip punish SPD whiff.
There are so many options now, I am not worried. Vega will be strong.
Which players are you playing that are attempting to sweep on a sitting Vega? They don’t have to do anything but hold down back at that point. I also have to wonder why are you sitting charging EX.FBA in that spacing when you should be dancing and moving to maintain that space?
No, it doesn’t mean his normal attacks have to suffer. Have you seen his normal attacks in the video? They’ve already been shown to clearly out range other character’s long attacks. For example, Vega hit Cammy with a s.MP and Cammy used s.HK, and completely whiffed. Vega is meant to shut down characters. You aren’t supposed to get in on Vega unless the player makes a mistake. That’s Vega. We also haven’t seen anything resembling high level play yet, the meta game hasn’t been explored yet, and well, there are a ton of reasons why maybe Vega gets to have good tools in this game. Maybe all the other characters are being designed to be strong, as well? Maybe Vega can dish out damage like a hulk but takes damage like a bitch, like his glass cannon archetype has always been?
I’ve gone over why ST doesn’t need iframes like Guile’s flash kick if it was a motion input. Also, Guile’s flash kick suffers the same weakness scarlet does even when his has iframes. It’s really easy to abuse with cross ups.
RCF is a pressure tool, have you actually seen it? It’s safe on block, which is the same design theory behind USF4 RCF FADC being… safe on block! Yes, it’s meant to be a pressure tool, but sadly, in SF4, the only real pressure you get out of it is via mid-combo from a jump in or a really risky meaty. EX.RCF is 0 on block so it’s actually good for a fireball punish, but the opponent needs to make that mistake. In ST, jab RCF is good for a long range poke, but even in ST, you aren’t really using RCF all that much unless you want to take a risk. Good players see it coming since there isn’t anything you can create a real block string from unless it’s point blank. Charge time is long in ST, so you can’t RCF from a jump in since nothing gives you enough block stun that also doesn’t push you back too far to pop it out in a proper block string. Now, it will simply be more versatile, perhaps a the cost of a little less push back.
SHC is shit, always has been shit, and it’s finally gone. Good fucking riddance.
Huh? Of course his meta has changed, that’s why I’ve been writing for the last week. No, his old paradigms do matter to a degree because now we have more options over them. RCF in 4 is pretty much a combo ender dude. Anything you combo to it, well, not much you can do after unless you want to waste a shit ton of meter (both meter and ultra) to get some meager damage with a RFADC cancel or to get some decent damage from a super cancel. Other than that, you’re using it to… end combos.
Minor damage control.
2 frame link expending meter. Lots of characters can do the same, or more, for no meter. What’s the point?
Again. watch the videos. In slow mo if you have to. His geometry looks good so far and so does his range. He also does good damage, too.
I noticed that they updated Ryu’s radar graph in the new Claw build.
[details=Spoiler]New:
Old:
[/details]
I couldn’t tell if they actually extended the range on anything though. I was thinking that c.mk had a farther reach, but each time it was just from Necalli hitting a button and extending his hurtbox.
What the hell does technique even refer to as far as the game is concerned? It looks like they took that chunk off and just added it to range. As for gamescom, I only saw one video with Ryu in it. Unfortunately it was a newbie or really low level player because he kept spamming st. MK and would randomly jump and press LK and MK as soon as possible so the active frames only lasted until the peak of Ryu’s jump
As for Otori’s theory. I think their is a real possibility of that being true unfortunately.
