I’m not asking for ST to be invincible.
So I already know that I will get downvoted because I think this is a mistake but screw it, might as well say something.
Alot of people seem happy about Vega being a motion character now. I am not.
Vega is a character who for 23 years has been a charge character. I’ve loved playing Vega as a charge character. When I was 7 years old and I first played SFII I was obsessed with Vega just because I loved the character. The way he played, his look, everything.
Present Day - I read comments like “Thank you Capcom, I can actually play this character now!!!” and I can’t help but be sad. Taking a character who has been a charge character for over 2 decades and switching it to a motion based character because some people can’t hold back and then press forward makes me want to headbutt my desk.
The other reasoning of the game being more aggressive - Bullshit.
People have been complaining about how good Decapre is at rushdown and midrange pressure since she came out. In case no one noticed, she’s a charge character. Aggressive charge characters already exist, so why say “We changed this character from having charge to motions because we wanted aggression”? Funny thing is, Vega’s moveset actually looks aggressive if you look at each move seperately (SF4) so why could he be an aggressive charge character?
So it comes down to this - I am happy for characters to change/evolve. I am.
What I’m not happy about is having a character completely changed but the reasoning for it not stand up. If they’d introduced a new character that was Vega’s apprentice or some shit, with all Vega’s moves but in motion form, I’d have been happy with that. I would thought it was a new, interesting idea that didn’t completely change an existing character.
I never wrote you did. I was commenting on ST being charge vs non-charge, and how such a simple change can make a major impact to a character.
You make it seem like we can’t play charge characters. I started out on charge characters a long time ago. There are clear advantages to not having to charge, and I’ve outlined numerous times. You seem to ignore those and focus on people’s execution, which no one is writing here they suck at charging.
Decapre also has completely different tools and faster charge times. Aggressive hands mashing with charge follow ups is not the same as trying to special cancel a move with not enough start up, active, and recovery frames to allow for the charge move to store, unless motion where you don’t need to use that, ever. Vega needs to evolve from sitting on down back to being on his feet. This is purely outside of any execution barrier.
Bruh combofiend please let the players choose what motions to use, down back then up forward is as simple to do as a hadoken and doesn’t need charging but giving him that input is bad news.
Actually put that in options mode. Toggle that says “ST or SF5 style inputs?”
Vega’s specials can be improved within the identity of being a charge character, hell you can change his specials into ones that fit into his charge play style better. He can be very strong and balanced and still be a charge character. Being a charge character doesn’t make a character bad, poor design choices and poor balance make a character bad. We already know that charging places a limit on a character but this is offset by the other things the character brings to the table (or should); this is all part of the appeal!
Changing Vega to motion is as offensive as changing Ryu to charge, yes I used the word offensive because that is what it is - a slap in the face. I have been playing charge characters since SF2 was in the arcades and I can play motion characters too, but I ENJOY charge characters. They have always been tons of fun to me in every Street Fighter and this is a game first and foremost, it is about FUN. Why alienate an entire group of players and their playstyle when you clearly don’t need to because there ARE other motion characters. So far 3 charge characters have been converted, but with Vega especially they really crossed a line I feel. Why bring Vega back if he won’t feel or play ANYTHING like Vega? Reskin him and call him Geki to appeal to the kids, since that’s who they are clearly after.
If after more than 2 decades of being charge, you prefer Vega to be a motion character then clearly Vega is not a character for you. Move on. Go play your shotos.
Anyway, it’s useless to discuss this here, it won’t yield anything. Go to Twitter or Capcommunity and make your voice heard.
1st point - No, I make it seem like the people saying “Thank you Capcom, I can actually play this character now!!!” can’t play charge characters. That is them complaining about execution and me pointing it out. If people are going to complain about charging being an executional barrier then yeah, I’m going to call it out. Granted I haven’t seen in so much in this thread but I’ve seen it in so often since I woke up this morning I couldn’t ignore it.
2nd point - Yes, Decapre has different tools and faster charge times. Strangely enough you have proved my point to an extent.
Decapre is an aggressive charge character because of her moveset and her decreased charge times. Why couldn’t they do the same thing to Vega? Reduce his charge times so he can be more aggressive, maybe make his RCF more of a rushdown move similar to Decapre’s Hands?
The reason I even mentioned Decapre was because of the whole “Removed Charge to make Aggressive” which is a null arguement, at least in my opinion.
I agree that Vega needs to evolve. The things I mentioned above would be evolving the character because he would still feel like the same character.
"This is purely outside of any execution barrier."
I don’t understand your statement here. Is it because I mentioned execution you assumed my entire post was about it?
@Daemos Offensive? Seriously? You’re drinking some crazy shit there.
The games have evolved to a certain point I don’t think Vega should be a charge character anymore. I’ve outlined numerous times, but most of you who try to counter never counter with any logical reasons why. Because it’s offensive to the character? To the play style? What?
You know what’s offensive to a character who relies on hit and run and dancing around gracefully? Having to sit on down back and not being able to fully use his entire arsenal of buttons.
There’s no winning with everyone. If you change him from charge, people will bitch. If you tweak special moves to work better with charge, or possibly give entirely new specials to compensate charge lacking, then you offend everyone who loves those classic special moves. You don’t change the character enough? People bitch he isn’t fresh.
Why don’t you try to address the reasons why changing from charge is beneficial over a misplaced character loyalty? Vega is still Vega, look at him. So he has command moves instead of charge. What the hell is the difference as long as he still does what Vega does? Address the valid points I’ve made beyond “it’s offensive to the character!”
Please.
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Maybe they don’t like charge characters. Some of the things command characters do is extremely dexterous and complicated. Maybe they just prefer that style and charging has turned them off the character. Instead, you immediately blame execution.
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Apples and oranges dude. Decapre can walk forward mash hands. Vega can’t walk forward mash RCF. He’d have to charge. You clearly see the difference?
yeah it’s weird it’s like people don’t think some players use charge characters because they’re charge characters. Still however Vega turns out in the end will be way different comparing how he’d work as a charge character and how he’d work as a motion character. Cuz no way they’d give him identical data for either version.
This isn’t just about Vega. This is about the charge play style in general. The risks of which are or ought to be balanced with its reward. People want change, they want new specials, new costumes, new story direction, this kind of fundamental change destroys and restructures the character as someone completely different. Most do not want this kind of change for any character they have been playing for years. The benefits of being a motion character are well understood, but those do not invalidate the charge playstyle which surely comes with its own benefits when designed correctly. Vega in SF4 just wasn’t good, this doesn’t reflect on the charge playstyle as a whole, rather only on the poor design and balance choices that were inflicted on the character.
Also playing a charge character isn’t about sitting on your ass downbacking all day, what are you an '09er? Learn to play.
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A fair enough point. I have however seen people praising Capcom because they couldn’t play charge characters, not that they didn’t like them but whatever, I’ll give you that.
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Now this is where I can’t agree with you and you seem to be in a state of not wanting to listen either.
(To be clear - I understand that both Decapre and Vega are different characters that have different moves and play differently. I think we’re both well aware of that and insinuating that I am not was frustrating the first time. This is the second time.)
Decapre has an aggressive playstyle and a moveset to match. This includes her Hands, Scrambles and Air-Drills. All very good moves for getting in and pressuring an opponent. Vega also has moves that, while not exactly the same, could be comparable. RCF is a forward moving, pressure tool. Wall Dive is like a poor Scramble.
So what was stopping Vega from being aggressive? Is it those long charge times when compared to Decapre? Maybe they could be lowered.
Was it that he couldn’t pressure while walking forward? Perhaps he could gain a new move or have a move adjusted to make it usable in that situation.
I am not against characters being updated, I just think that the change made is quite possibly one of the worst and laziest ways to adapt.
You say “Apples and Oranges” and I say “Where the fuck did the Mango come from?”
EDIT -
This is something I don’t agree with.
I’ve read a lot of Moonchilde’s post on the Vega SF4 forums and I find reading their posts usually quite informative (Especially during the Ultra Arcade release and Vega was apparently OP because BNB was no longer a series of 1-frames but was 2-frames adnd ST having invul was apparently game breaking).
Calling someone and 09er because of something they’ve said is actually pretty disrespectful and makes you seem like the child instead.
i don’t agree with this because in sf5 we have v-skills which could all easily be crafted to help charge characters move forward whilst maintaining charge.
Chun players have adapted fine.
Explain again how command is a fundamental change to the character? Does he still have great pokes? Yes? Is he still fast? Yes? Is he still capable of linking attacks and canceling to specials? Yes? is he still graceful and dangerous? Yes?
Where is the fundamental change? He is still Vega.
A play style thing. I get that. But it isn’t fundamental to the character in what makes the character that character. I don’t play Vega because he is a charge character, though in my starting out days charging was way easier than command, I play him because he’s Vega. I play him because he’s fast, dangerous, hits hard and runs away. I’d much rather be on my feet.
Serious? Rather than address something logical you resort to insults. Lern2play lmao so funny bro. If I want to maximize damage in SF4 then I have to at some point sit on down back during a combo limiting what tools I can actually use prior to charging. I’m sorry, but at this point, I’d really like to see his capabilities open up and evolve.
And for what it’s worth, it takes a lot less dexterity to play a charge character. It’s why it was so much easier to play a charge character when starting out than a command character. I’m not at all claiming charge characters are derp, but the dexterity requirements are not the same.
And implying that I’m insane for being offended by the changes to Vega - someone I dedicatedly played for 2 decades - somehow isn’t?
It is well established that being a charge character in SF4 was a subpar experience, but this was mainly because SF4’s mechanics are abrasive, arguably fucked up, and the least Street Fightery of all the Street Fighters. SF4 Vega should not be the Vega we measure future Vegas against.
Bison in SFV is a prime example of how to play up a character’s strengths, give them the tools they need, make them complete, while still maintaining the essence of their play style. Vega should’ve gone through a similar experience to Bison, NOT one like Nash’s.
Thank you for clarifying. Perhaps I wasn’t clear on what you were getting to.
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I think it’s fair that some people think it’s easier to play motion characters. Maybe to them, charging doesn’t click with their heads. IMO, I think charging requires much less dexterity, so IMO, command characters take more work to get good at. Of course, things like 1 frame links can turn the lower dexterity execution requirements upside down with new strict timing execution requirements, as we’ve seen in SF4.
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Actually, RCF has really fast charge time and was buffed in USF4. I think it’s 50 frames now to charge, same as ST. Decapre’s moves charge in 47 frames I think. The charge times are already as fast as they can be for RCF, but you’ll never be able to walk forward and put fear in the opponents heart and then RCF. Vega doesn’t have any true forward momentum to cover up RCF charge other than CH, which can be eaten alive by a focus attack, unlike mashing hands with Decap.
Perhaps he could gain new moves! I think freshening up his move list would be a nice change of pace, and during analysis I saw a lot of new things. I think we’re on the right track. I also think command at this point is more in line with his character. Have you played CvS2? In that game Vega is all about movement and buttons. You’re never sitting on your ass, you’re hitting hard and pushing the opponent back. Thing is, in that game, buttons do great damage and you don’t really need huge combos to win a round. SF5 is definitely a change in the right direction but I think as the meta evolves, maximizing damage is going to need to be a thing again. Whether or not that means specials matter, or if simply linking a bunch of normal attacks together is yet to be seen. Regardless, a mobile Vega is a dangerous Vega, and I just want to see what happens when he can utilize a number of tools and never have to hold down back if the player doesn’t want to.
Much love 
Vega holds the most character loyalist crowd. Capcom is aware of this. And now, they have simply spitted at the face of every Vega fan.
I’m offended. I’m sure many other people are offended as well. They have mocked us.
I will write every corner on the net for Capcom to hear. They can’t do this to such a trademark character.
Changes have their limits. This is out of the limits. They have succeeded in killing my hype for my favourite character in the whole gaming universe being in the game.
I don’t think I’ll buy SF5. I don’t play motion. And I only play SF for Vega. All the rest of the cast is simply boring for me.
I agree with you. However Moonchilde appears to be talking down to anyone who disagrees with this whole mess and as such I’m kinda trying to ignore those parts and focus on the parts that might bring discussion.
I suppose I should’ve said something like “Don’t bring yourself down to their level” instead.
(I’m going to be 100% honest - I was writing a post out about how you’re ignoring my points and how it wasn’t worth my time to discuss and then you post this.)
I think you understand where I’m coming from now, which is great. 
I’m going to try and address your points in order so I don’t get lost -
“Vega doesn’t have any true forward momentum to cover up RCF” - Agreed. But your point about Focus Attacks eating the CH are void because we’re talking about SFV not SF4. Not trying to be a dick, just pointing it out.
(I think this is where a lot of arguments are coming from too. People are looking at it like SF4 when it’s a completely new engine where charge doesn’t have to be as big a detriment)
CvS2 - Again, agreed on mostly everything said. Vega was the midrange poking beast with damage that made people want to cry. If I am completely honest with myself, that’s the Vega I want now. However I know that’s never going to happen because of multiple reasons (Intended playstyle, “Balance”, Crying) and I’m ok with that. CvS2 was in a different time (A time when poking and footsies were more important to people than combos but that’s a different discussion).
Mobile Vega - I don’t know how you can say that when no one has their hands on him yet. For all we know he could be even slower than his SF4 counterpart other than being able to Throw Roses (Drill Claw).
Funny thing is I imagine that his tools are going to be not as good as many of the older Vega players are used to because they’re removing charge (“Can’t let you have that move that other people have without charge because you used to have to charge it before. Better beat it into the ground”) so being mobile may be all he has (If he even has that at all).
Quite honestly, this is kinda how I feel at the moment. Mostly because I don’t even own a PS4 nor a PS4 arcade stick (Since I don’t own a PS4. Dur…) and I have been in the 50/50 mixup of whether I can afford it or not.
When I saw Vega my gaming boner was standing 100% at attention. The Randy Marsh picture actually couldn’t have been more accurate.
But the more information that has dropped, the more it feels like I’m going to have to keep popping viagra to keep it up and I don’t want to do that.
(Sorry for the crude ending of this post… I just kinda let my mind flow with teh words for a minute)
Vega gameplay guys!
(scrub match unfortunately :neutral: )
That walkspeed…
(Thanks for posting )