There’s a video showing how cHP having more active frames helps it AA better. I’m not going looking for it, It’s somewhere in the ultra changes thread.
The point of the message isn’t to help the situation. The point is to nerf Vega because he’s just too good. Zeus won a major. he’s broken. Simple as that. Needs major nerfs. I gave him a list of good nerfs to give to bring him back down on par with the rest of the cast. If you have a problem with it well… then you suck as a Vega player and that’s why you can’t win. Zeus can do it so no excuses. Zeus is essentially saying that the character carries him through matches since skill really isn’t needed on the level it is to play other characters like Cammy or Ryu.
I honestly don’t care at this point. I’m just doing this for my own amusement. I already know how this story ends. I’m just done being in denial of it.
Again: That video showed how it works against EMPTY JUMPS. I don’t care. Active frames will never make it easier to beat a jump in. Ryu’s jiHP will still beat it clean.
Also, since SF4 Vanilla Capcom does not care about Claw. Now that Zuz won a major everyone put the blame on that.
Guys. If Claw is going to be nerfed because of that… Makoto, Oni, E. Ryu and Gen would have their legs taken out.
it wasn’t all just empty jumps. Hitbox changes don’t address the fact that cHP only has a small window to actually work. If you actually used cHP effectively now you’d see exactly how doubling the active frames would help far more than fixing the hitbox.
just test it on pc people. that cr.hp works like a charm. get’s a trade 30-40% of the time though. but I only use it when I can’t react with instant neutral hk
In the beggining I am pressing crHP a little late. By the end I try to press it early to enjoy the active frames buff.
And there you go: CH is more reliable than that.
If you guys keep testing against crappy jump ins you will have captious results.
It doesn’t matter, with 4 or 400 active frames, crHP will lose to good jump ins… because the hitbox is shit. Thats how the game works.
The buff will help against:
Dive kicks.
Opponents whose jump ins shift their hurtbox a lot. Like Zangief.
Opponents that does not have good jump ins, like Abel, Cody, etc. (Which, by the way, crHP already works fine)
yeah, i remember you mentioned about jumping hp beating it clean. but because he’s forced to use that jump in, he needs to come in a bit closer for that to work. i guess it’ll stop people from jumping in with the tip of their hk.
Well, his jiHK was never an actual problem. If Ryu jump in at you with that move you should not have trouble anti airing. stHK, current crHP and ST already do the job.
Well no fucking shit. I never said it would beat every jump in attempt clean. Providing 1 example of it not helping when I can provide dozens of it helping doesn’t make your point any more valid.
Besides, the point I was making doesn’t deal with it beating moves after the buff than it will now. The reason it’s better is that you don’t just have a 2 frame window to time it correctly. You now have a 4 frame. It will still trade and beat the same things it trades and beats with. It will still lose to the same things it loses to now. However, where people can change the angle/timing of their jumps (aka dive kicks) this will help because now it’s out for 2 frames longer.
That is… unless dive kicks are easier to deal with than normal jump ins. If that’s the case then it should reasonably follow that dive kick characters should be the easiest matches to deal with. I don’t think that’s the case.
cHP doesn’t need to beat more moves or become this one size fits all AA. The buff is an accessory to his current game, reducing the risk you currently have to take by being forced to jump to get some realistic reliability out of his AA game. Now he doesn’t. It doesn’t mean he won’t need his air to airs anymore. Just means that he won’t need to rely them as much. Particularly against jumps with timing/angle changes.
In addition, something you failed to show in the video, I’ve stated numerous times that you’re going to need to be mobile in order to get the most effective use out of it. In the case of Ryu’s jHP, instead of staying at a range you KNOW you’ll lose at, why don’t you try walking forward and THEN using cHP? There’s a timing that you can enter the move and it will cause cHP to whiff. Those 2 extra active frames will cause it to hit. You don’t even need the PC build to see that.
Ok. So you see a video that a random guy made on youtube showing with one example that with 2 more active frames its easier to nail empty jumps and suddenly active frames > hitbox when it comes to AA.
I make and video with one good example and suddenly it does not mean anything.
So, go ahead. Give me those dozens of example that will make the use of crHP better, aside from what I’ve already said.
Remember those cases when you try to AA people with crHP and you react so fast that you actually ran out of active frames before they reach you? Yeah. Me neither. But thats when 2 more actives frames would help.
Again, the only cases where its going to help is against dive kicks and Gief’s jumps. Maybe there are a couple that are slipping my mind right now. But there is no doubt that, if they exist, they will follow those two rules: Dive kick/Jumps that change hurtbox A LOT depending which button is pressed.
Dude. Whats your point again?
Come on. Stop implying that I said that he needs those stuffs, stick to the subject.
Guile, Sakura and Rose have AAs with WAY better hitboxes and FIVE active frames. But that doesn’t change the fact that they are fucked up when they try to AA and jiHK/HP and a dive kick comes out.
So, show me, aside from those examples that I already gave you. How active frames will help crHP better than a slightly hitbox improvement? I mean, precise examples.
Oh, god, ok.
Instead of trying to do this: http://puu.sh/6GmQ2.jpg . Trying to AA with the part that has the best hitbox and no hurtbox at all. Where crHP has the best chances of working.
You suggest that I should’ve tried that: http://puu.sh/6Goz1.jpg (with zoom so its easier to see how the hitbox may interact) . Using like its and “uppercut” normal? His hurtbox is HUGE. Dawg, its Claw, not Guile here. Also, anything further than that… it could actually work. But which Ryu will actually use jiHP instead of jiLK/MK at that range?
I was at the best angle possible to test jiHP. If you still played this game you would know how crHP can work as AA.
By this point I feel like I am playing chess with a pidgeon.
Look, guys. I am not trying to change what Vegaman thinks. The problem is that there are people that do not know how the game works at all… and then when they come here and read some stuffs that are are wrong, they start believing it because there is a guy on srk.com that stated it and everyone believed it. Then proceed to go to the world spreading what they think its right because… this is what people do.
Nevermind. … You’re right. It’s a worthless buff. My bad. Don’t listen to the guy that more than likely uses the damn move more than anyone else in these forums. Your best hitbox has to beat the opponents best hitbox or its worthless.
I’m done arguing with someone who clearly doesn’t know what neither he nor I is talking about in a game I have no interest in playing. Not do I have any interest reposting the same shit that’s in 5 other threads.
Figure it out yourselves, or fuck it and take Haz’s word on it. If Capcom removes this buff and people start bitching, then maybe… just maybe it had some uses. I honestly do not care at this point any more.
To simplify:
You said that active frames > hitbox when it comes to AA. I’m going against that.
You said … that I said … that Claw needs a “one button to solve them all” and the buff is worthless. You are going against that.
Thats the problem. I’ve never said that the buff is worthless. Nor that Claw needs a real solid anti air. You are the one that claim that I said it just so you can be sarcastic about it over and over again.
Active frames will help in some very, very minor cases. Against more than the rest of the 30 characters of the cast our bad n’ old crHP will be the EXACT SAME as it is today.
cr.HP and Ultra2 are both things I wished were a tiny bit better. And guess what, looks like one is getting a little better (for the first time) and the other is getting a little faster (like it was before)! I’m very happy!
cr.LP and EX.ScarletTerror would not be the top things I’d petition for changes over anyway. I (initially) would not have expected them to get buffed, as it would have changed the whole SF4 design theory of balancing Vega. Although, cr.LP would have been really boss if it was +5 on hit, haha. I think it’s likely that Capcom knowingly went extreme during testing phases with Vega’s previous buffs, and are rolling that back to something more expect-able now.
I think Cosmic Heel (df.HK) could have used maybe a +1 change; I still don’t quite understand what the hell they did with it during testing. It felt and looked weird, so at least I don’t have to worry about re-learning that move if it doesn’t change after all ^^.
Essentially, it looks like Vega is staying about the same, and that doesn’t make me any less excited for USSF4! I’m going to crush the egos of every buffed character, and drink the tears of those nerfed!
It seems to be removed for some reason though? It specifically said that cr.lp far st.lk comboed. Also said he tested cr.mk cr.mp xx ex fba on a crouching Ken and while he dropped the cr.mk cr.mp he figured the spacing was right and said it didn’t whiff in the corner. I’m not a Vega player so I’m just assuming it missed before?
i wish he could test if cl.hp, cr.mp x super, or if st.lk, cr.lp, cr.mp x super would work. on characters like ryu, it doesn’t work. it’s useless i know, but if we are gonna get that buff, i want to at least be able to use it whenever i feel like it.
Noone is upset about their taking back our ex.roll combos? Am I the only one using them, had been working day and night to learn the timing and performed it to its full potential in matches? Noone is upset that they, just like that, could take our most damaging combo?
