I didn’t say invulnerable aa. I said reliable. cHP fills that role, because the situations it loses to I can cover with air to airs. I no longer HAVE to take huge risks on every anti air attempt. Remove cHP without something comparable, then give him an invincible reversal. Its one or the other. Give him the ability to keep ppl out or give him the ability to get ppl off. Saying that EX ST with 4 frames of invincibility is going to be of any decent use as an AA (particularly inside cMP range) is a farse. And no… I’ll jump in on Guile any time he doesn’t have half charge and I’m inside my cMK range. Not just on wake up.
exactly what pressure tools does Vega have? Vega has no blockstrings, no major frame advantage to force the opponent to guess, no serious threat of damage on an opponent sitting on down back, no tool to blow up frame traps, no 3 frame normal, no reliable way to combo into ultra… Not to mention, anything other than a light poke puts you at risk of a jump in attempt PLUS Vega puts himself at risk on anything more than single pokes to everyone that happens to have a strike invincible move… which incidentally itself puts him at risk of focus attacks. So where is this pressure… this threat Vega imposes onto his opponents? His entire offense consists of whiff punishing and Kara throw/frame trap mix ups. Or is your definition of pressure different than mine?
his normals aren’t the only cause of ppl taking to the air. His lack of a realistic ability to deal with airborne opponents is the main cause ppl to take to the air. No one cares about Vega’s footsies because no one has to play against them.
3 best pokes in the game is a bit of a stretch. They’re good. That’s it. I also didn’t ask what other pokes he has either. Learn to read. sMK is a good poke. But it does 70 damage, doesn’t combo, doesn’t set up useful frame advantage… so that’s all it does. Poke. sHP is a great poke too. Again, that’s all it does though. Poke. All of Vega’s normals can do this. The opponent isn’t going to go “oh shit he’s using sMK… I need to be careful.” nothing wrong with nickel and diming ppl. But consider the risk you’re taking with the reward you get relative to the risk the opponent is taking with the reward they get. Look at what you are risking for 70 damage by sticking out sMK. When you stick out cMP look at what you are risking for 60 -210 damage.
Again… what good are these awesome footsie tools we have if we rarely get to use them because everyone herp derp jumps in all the time?
i’ve been wondering about st.mk, sure it’s our furthest poke, but do you really want to push them out of your effective range? i tend to want to be a far.lk distance, even though it’s scary at that range, you still outpoke the majority of the cast, plus you might even be able to combo.
Not going to clutter the thread anymore, I agree with a decent cHP which has non-invul start meaning if the opponent jumps a poorly timed poke he gets you to block, something that would not be true with I-frames on the EX ST. I guess it’s going to be mostly circles at this point in conversation otherwise.
Jump a poke vs Vegawith bar and db charge that he can spend a bar to aa = the poke was poorly timed
Jump a poke or fb from ryu or guile and get hit by meterless flashkick that only requires d charge and can be fadcd or meterless shoryu that goes into ultra for free even on trade = the jump was poorly timed
Spam st.hk close for 2 hits, not even lying. People who can’t fight Vega try to focus every single time and cry lol. My main is Bison so I get stupidity like “STUPID BISON SCRUB STILL USING 1 BUTTON PLAY!”. I don’t see why people complain about him, especially wall dives. People say him vs Bison is 6/4 to Vega, and I don’t even fear him.
On a side note: Vega looking good with the buffs, dunno if I’ll go back to him but I’ll definitely give him a try on Ultra release. Bison/Vega/Ken were my guys.
Yeah, I find myself constantly relying on st.HK since I know they’re just going to try to focus any of my other pokes. Once they wise up, they tend to jump, because what can I do. If they don’t jump, then I can poke with a cr.MP in hopes that they don’t FA and I get EX FBA. With st.HK though, I need to be close enough to get that second hit to break armor, which puts me in really bad range. Problem is if I don’t get in range to get at least a little damage then I’m not going to get any sort of life lead in the slightest.
It would be nice if st.HK was a 2 hitter at the tip of the foot. They’d need to change the animation, such as when he hits with his foot, he turns his leg and brings the heel down on them for the 2nd hit. This knee first stuff sucks, lol. I mean, it’s ok, it would work at close range that way but we need an armor breaker at further range without needed to charge db for ST or an EX move like SHC. Hell, shotos get to use Tatsu to break armor, which is usable in the air and ground and doesn’t require charge and you can move forward and pressure with it against people who like to Focus charge a lot.
Don’t do this. The main difference betwen Dicta’s and Claw’s sHK is frame advantage : Dicta’s can be positive on block, whereas Claw’s is negative ON HIT, and punishable on block.
Against any character who can punish both fast an far and who knows that (in mirror for example), you’ll get punished if you do spam that at close range. Doing it from max range is ok though. =)
Another thing is that it’s not a good focus breaker past close range, 'cause a lot of focus stances move the hurtbox back an low, so that second hit whiffs and leaves you wide open for 23 frames of recovery… =p
I’ve wondered about that. The fact is a blocked sMK does not gives you any kind of advantage (you’re negative), and pushes the opponent outside of Claw’s best effective range.
So when I want to zone I use sMK, when I want to attack cMK or sLK have much better potential. Another use of sMK though is as a combo ender, for counterhit cMK for instance. =)
sMK is best used as a bait set up. You throw it out once or twice and then bait a jump with a light so that you can react to the jump attempt. Space control and fireball stuffing. 2 best things it does
People who complain about Vega know how to punish? I thought that’s why they complained about Vega in the first place. I see people complaining about his backflip more than Akuma’s teleport rofl.
Also looking at loctest videos, what’s so broken about Vega? The only thing I see broken is Ken.
Whoever wrote sMK has the most range out of all his pokes, thank you. That shit works wonders against fireballs. Totally kills the start up, and even shuts down Tatsu start up as well. I didn’t realize it has more range than sHP. What gives, lol, that should have the most range, but it seems kinda nerfed compared to past iterations of Claw. In past iterations he would lean really far forward and stab with the claw, but he doesn’t seem to do that in SF4. sMK has a tiny bit more range which I think is unexpected, I know I didn’t expect it and it doesn’t exactly look like it. Too bad it doesn’t have combo potential. If it recovered just a tad faster or had more hit stun, we could combo it into EX FBA, but you can only combo close sMK into it.
Standing MK is extremely important in controlling the opponents movement and proximity towards you, and therefore their jump arc, and therefore your ability to anti air them.
Maybe it was because I was using it online when I tried it out prior where it seemed too slow to react to anything, compared to in training and then later offline or only online with people on my friend list who I know I have a good connection with. It seemed useless to me before, no combo potential or that nice extra damage from cMP to EX FBA, but I’m finding more uses to tag shotos or other fireball characters with it from a distance they are not expecting. On the other hand, some of the people I play do not really maximize stuff like FA, so, I am not sure if I was only getting away with it just because they don’t know the match up. The extra range helps because I don’t think many people expect Claw to have a kick poke to have the most range out of all his normals. I haven’t found a practical use for it against rush down characters though.
I just wanted to thank whoever mentioned it had the most range, that’s all. So, again, thank you, whoever that was.
i always thought it’s a glitch, no way does a move that looks like an overhead, is slow link an overhead…is NOT an overhead…then again, that reminds me or evil ryu’s f+mk
overhead is the 2nd longest normal btw