Vega Combos & Glitches

[Mezcal]

alright, thanks for the quick reply <3, prolly that was some kind of newb question, but as i said, coudnt try it out myself.

im not getting too illusory about vega these days anyway .D so no big disappointment over here

[pedoviejo]

So yesterday I bet Ryu’s cr.mk clean with EX Scarlett Terror. I also did this against Chun-Li cr.mp, Juri’s cr.mk. So im guessing that EX Scarlett Terror can beat these type of lows.

[Sasaki]

Actually this happened to me a lot in SFIV too. ST doesn’t seem to be that shitty hitbox-wise, it’s just no good against meaties.

I happened to come across Spore’s (Fuerte player from Singapore) notes on how the japanese play today. I encourage you all to think about this and try to incorporate it into your gameplan, as it’s also part of the reason our favourite Vega player (Makoto) is so good.

2. General Thoughts on Japanese Gameplay

I’ll talk about the main things I’ve learnt from my time in Japan before I go into Fuerte specific stuff later.

a) Block Discipline.

We noticed that the Japanese always have a plan to punish the the way you escape pressure. Whether it’s mashing tech, reversals or even backdashes and jump backs, they will be looking for that ‘get out of jail free card’ that you like to abuse and punish that accordingly. Hence sometimes it’s good to just sit there and block. Not block while mashing tech, but just block. For example, TKD doesn’t even press tech at regular intervals the way most of us do. He looks at how his opponent is applying pressure, and techs only when he feels a throw is coming. Eg during a Ryu c.lpx3, throw string, he might only press tech during the second lp, just in case the Ryu does stuff like c.lp x3, c.mp, c.mp etc instead of going straight for the throw. The main point is to not be anxious and to take the block string like a man while watching how your opponent is pressuring you, and react accordingly.

b) Damage vs Information

This concept may sound a little abstract, and may be veering too deep into theory fighter land, but it’s one of the most important things I’ve learnt there, especially to Fuerte players, so i’ll try to explain it to the best of my ability.

I’m sure we’re very familiar with the idea of dealing damage when we play sf. Our combos, mix ups and gameplay are usually geared towards dishing out the ‘maximum punishment’/creating a set up by which we can do the most damage or get a quick knockdown.

However, there is the idea of getting information about your opponent and his weaknesses that I don’t think we’ve been exploring to great effect. In essence, it means doing stuff that might not give you the optimal damage output and giving the opponent space to do stuff, yet not putting yourself at risk.

A few examples of what I mean:

a) TKD doesn’t end RSF with a slide, the so called optimal damage combo ender. What he does rather, is run back stop, observing whether you’re mashing a reversal, throw, backdashing, jumping etc etc and will punish you accordingly the next time, eg splashing if you jump back, tortilla if you block etc etc.

b) Kanbara (grandmaster Akuma) will stop his combos prematurely at times. We’ve seen him do stuff like : counterhit into fireball, fadc s.hk, walk back, crouch, instead of doing the usual combo into tatsu, srk.

Instead of going for the immediate knockdown, or quick damage, these players would rather create a situation which allows them to observe your reaction to pressure. They are willing to trade that damage, and even the opportunity for further damage after a knockdown for the vital information which is their opponent’s habits and reaction to an arguably very stressful situation.

In essence, the game does not just consist of set ups and combos to do damag. Set ups can also be used to collect information about your opponent and this information can be used to your advantage. We feel that this explains why some high level matches appear to be very slow, patient, or even ‘turtle’. What’s actually going on, as we’ve experienced firsthand, is a continual process of gathering information about your opponent, be it by whiffing moves at safe distances, walking back and forth etc etc.

Most of us understand this on an instinctive level when we try to bait an opponent into doing something, but the Japanese do this alot more methodologically and purposefully ? basically you can’t just wait for your opponent to give you information, you’ve got to create a situation in which he’s compelled to react, giving you that information in the process.

[eiyujpn]

I pretty much sandbag/“prematurely pause” the first round to see what opponent you are facing and then formulate my strategy on the following rounds.

Not lose on purpose, I mean just gather info and do certain setups and see how they react. Though generally in the first opening move and the first quarter of the match can tell you exactly the type of player the opponent is.

I do that alot more with elf though, I don’t end with slide anymore. I either RSF into back hop, stop throw, run back stop or go into run mpxx run c.lk/c.mk into tostada/tortilla/jump air throw mixup.

That generally confuses the opponent and since RSF deals less stun now you just have to set them up more. Plus wake up games are hard to do on people with match up experience and mix up straight from RSF seems more stressful and gives the opponent less time to react to. They are forced to make a decision on the spot will slide knockdown gives the opponent enough time to think about your options.

[System_1]

Apologies first if this combo has been posted already on this thread (I just read the first page and last page and cant be bothered reading the middle section of this thread.)

jump :hk: , :hp: , :hk: = 5 hit combo… simple and good demage for a Claw combo.

[Kouryuu]

That is a great post Sasaki.

After playing Claw a few matches against really good players offline, I realized that I don’t want to relearn another character all over again… so I’m more than likely gonna drop Juri and just stick with Claw. I have to say, I really do appreciate that the damage has been ‘nerfed’ all across the board and the fact that Claws damage output is consistent against all characters now.

Also, just a little note:

Crystal Roll works pretty well as a pressure tool now. I mix it up in my block strings/pressure game since almost 90% of the time I’ll be holding back (and it can’t be reversal DP’ed in between the second to the last hit anymore). I usually cancel into a mp CR after a cr.mk. If I net a counter hit off the cr.mk, the CR combos. And when people become wary of my cr.mk, I go for the OH lol. Too bad, st.lk isn’t cancel able. Oh well.

Gonna hit the lab to see what I can find.

[Destin]

Different hit animations depend on which of the characters vulnerable hitboxes you connect with.

[Sasaki]

Just a small comment: Did you guys notice that you can get an easy meaty jab roll after a forward throw? If it hits, you can combo cr.mp -> EX FBA. Wouldn’t use this too often though, as it can be telegraphed. Catches some opps off guard though.

I’m really really bad at cancelling into focus crumple, but that may work also.

[pedoviejo]

Just a small comment: Did you guys notice that you can get an easy meaty jab roll after a forward throw? If it hits, you can combo cr.mp -> EX FBA. Wouldn’t use this too often though, as it can be telegraphed. Catches some opps off guard though.

I’m really really bad at cancelling into focus crumple, but that may work also.

Well that is interesting. I kind of do the same, but i do it when I AA someone with nj.hk/hp.

I do CH as soon as I land. And since the screen moves pretty fast, its hard to see what Im doing so its hard to react to. Its risky, but its worked well for me.

[shadow050]

has anyone noticed how effective you can use SC as a counter attack, if you set it up by using feirce rolling claw attack?

in my experience, it works best after making sure the opponent BLOCKS the rolling claw… about a fraction of sec after it completes, unleash SC, and it can connect on some players who are bold enough to try to hit you after rolling claw…

[Jsian]

For neutral jump Fierce/Roundhouse to Ultra I hit the button with the same timing I would if I wanted to do neutral jump HP/HK to d/f HK, which is as late as possible. The hitstun is very tight but it combos. Of course I don’t attempt this in matches but it’s nice to know it’s there.

[palmerfan]

Just a little simple combo… probably mentioned before, but…
Cosmic Heel, Sweep

[gekko3558]

Just a little simple combo… probably mentioned before, but…
Cosmic Heel, Sweep

cosmic heel, H ST is better

or cosmic heel, s.lp to reset, then into throw or bait a DP/etc.

[Francys_Pai]

Just a little simple combo… probably mentioned before, but…
Cosmic Heel, Sweep

CH > H ST

It does…in the words of a friend…disgusting damage XD.

[SodaPOP]

or cosmic heel, s.lp to reset, then into throw or bait a DP/etc.

I might be wrong, but if you wanted to reset, wouldn’t cr.hp be the better option?

[gekko3558]

I might be wrong, but if you wanted to reset, wouldn’t cr.hp be the better option?

its more damage, but the s.lp is very fast and allows you to crowd them heavily to throw or bait reversals

[pedoviejo]

its more damage, but the s.lp is very fast and allows you to crowd them heavily to throw or bait reversals

Not everyone reversals every thing. Getting that knock down is more important, than going for a 50/50, that will not work in my favor if things go south. In fact you take a bigger risk than your opponent. All he is going to lose is about 120-250 more health. you can lose between 120-400 health. Now it has its uses and i use it from time to time, but only to see how my opponent reacts to my aggression.

[gekko3558]

dont know if this has been posted yet but a neutral jump RH, CH is a link… opens up some possibilities

edit again: its a 4-hit combo for 308 damage: neutral jump.RH, CH, H ST

edit again again: yeah i found it posted before me, oh well

edit:

Not everyone reversals every thing. Getting that knock down is more important, than going for a 50/50, that will not work in my favor if things go south. In fact you take a bigger risk than your opponent. All he is going to lose is about 120-250 more health. you can lose between 120-400 health. Now it has its uses and i use it from time to time, but only to see how my opponent reacts to my aggression.

yeah definitely, dont ever abuse that reset because like pedoviejo points out its a huge risk… also going along with what he said its a great way to see how your opponent reacts to pressure… i typically do it and throw an early K+K+K flip, early enough to not be punishable if they dont reverse, but late enough to avoid reversals… its pretty safe, especially if you can bait a shoryuken or something, then its a high damage punish from you

[Jsian]

This combo’s more flash than anything else but for variety’s sake, after you’ve stunned your opponent and you want a variation on the double ST combo do jump in, standing MP xx LK Scarlet, EX Scarlet. Crouching MK to LK doesn’t work on most of the cast so MP is your best bet. You can also cancel the first hit of close standing fierce but it’s 20 less damage.

[WiNGSPANTT]

What would you guys say Vega’s BNBs are? Best combos to hit confirm into? And how tight are the links (if any) in these combos?