Meh, SSF4 Vega is working out great for me. The players I used to lose to in shitty ways during Vanilla I now beat without delay. How is comparing Vanilla and SSF4 anything stupid? Same game pretty much. Yeah people can do damaging combos without EX but if you’re a non-stupid Vega you’re not using your meter on anything else, *especially * in this game. The EX FBA punishes are always there if you know what you’re doing. Your assessment of the overhead is misguided. Space it properly. Use it meaty. You can do much more than a backdash, I have videos to prove it is pretty much as awesome as using Cosmic Heel was in Vanilla in your throw game. And who does more damage than Vega? It’s clear that Vega has 400+ combos that use EX but I already explained that if you know what you’re doing you’ll always have meter if you’re on offense. The idea is that he can punish things other people can’t with c. mp and the like and still get huger damage than most of the cast.
Your other complaints about the wakeup and no actual AA are the same shit all those guys used to talk about back then in the sharpening the claws thread. Seriously, saying Vega has no actual AA is retarded. Yeah maybe he does’t have one that he can spam all the time but between ST, air throw and jump back mp / mk you should never ever be getting jumped in on unless its meaty.
Well, whatever. I’m known for being an optimist. I am absolutely convinced that Vega got the buffs he needed to compete. If you don’t think so, suit yourself =)
the fact that st.hp - cr.mp xx FBA 315 points of damage with one meter, plus puts you in a positional advantage is pretty big. Add a jump in or focus attack thats an extra he is doing 375 or more points of damage.
the fact that cr.mk - cr.mp xx FBA works on everyone is pretty big. Ill agree with Joz. Vega deals heavy damage now. something he could only do against specific characters before. Now he does it to every one.
Any way who in the game does that much damage with out meter?
Exactly, most characters got nerfed in terms of damage. I can’t imagine who has 1 meter combos that do more damage than Vega’s. Or, at any rate, can be pulled off from as far ranges and short charge times as Vega’s.
Akuma, Viper, Rufus, Ibuki, Dudley to name a few all have combos that do pretty much the same damage with no meter.
You guys arent getting my Point, I couldnt be happier with SSF4 Vega, I still crack up a smile everytime i go for j.HP>cl.HP>c.lp>c.Mp>EX FBA and it freakin HITS on everybody. Its just that he could have gotten MUCH MUCH more with easy tweaks, it saddens me thats all.
Like seriously, would it hurt to not have 30 frames of lag when we do an empty FBA? or if ST or EX ST had like…3 frames of Invincibility on start up? or if MP/HP/EX Rolls are a bit faster?
Idk, they couldve done a bit more tweaks to make him go for mid/high-mid tier but instead they just fixed EX FBA and PoM and called it a day
About Vega having no AA, all of his current ones are situational and are mediocre at best… the only AA i use Nowadays is simply Focus the jump-in, seems to get me better results than trying to guess which of the 6 other AA’s i should use to get stuffed.
Anyways, we’re simply beating a dead horse now. Lets just all be happy about the buffed Vega and move on with our lives :]
What Vega needed was to be able to combo off a reliable low attack (cr.lk), combo off the shitty overhead on CH, throw invincibility on EX FBA, and a god damn normal that can act as an solid AA (st.hk would have been great). jb.hp hitting every character that crouches (like Chun li’s jb.hk would have been nice too).
I honestly don’t care about his wake up options. I don’t need I-frames on ST or a reliable backflip. If he had tools to keep someone from knocking him down, then that would have been great. Look at Cody.
Nothing else. But he got none of that. His AA is an Ultra which means free jump ins until he has meter, and even then he is limited to holding charge meaning his footsie game is going to get hurt.
I could go on ranting but I’ll stop right here.
Edit: His shitty OH (POM) can be jabbed out of (even OS shorts knock Claw out of it, before he hits). Looking great.
Tatsu made an amazing point in one of the SSF4 threads when he said the tiers have merely been “compressed.” And I agree with him completely. Claw just won’t get raped as bad. That’s it.
I’ve seen this asked about several times and already posted this information in the “Revamped BHC” thread. However, I figure it’ll have a better chance of being seen by those who are interested in this thread, and it seems more appropriate here.
Anyways, you can combo into either of Claw’s ultras off of j.FP or j.RH. This has already been known. However, some are unsure of how to perform it.
The way to do it, is to hit them with the j.RH as late as you can manage (I believe anywhere below the neck will work, obviously the later the better) then input the ultra as soon as you hit the ground. I find SC to be far more lenient to combo into than BHC. I have not tried either in an actual match however and honestly doubt this being viable but I think it’s better than trying to combo it off CH.
Damage
Here are the numbers for both ultras combo’d after a j.RH with full meter.
Bloody High Claw
With Mask and Claw: 484
With Claw: 537
With Mask: 424
Neither: 467
Splendid Claw
With Mask and Claw: 460
With Claw: 506
With Mask: 448
Neither: 493
Again I believe that you’re much better off saving the Ultra as a wakeup option, anti-air, or as a punish. But hey, it’s another option.
eiyujpn is right. nj.RH > SC works. The damage output is the same as foward jump. Did you pull it off in an actual match or was it in training mode, eiyujpn?
nj.MK > SC does NOT work. You’ll go into ultra, and while it looks like the character is still in hitstun, they’ll simply block the ultra and then severely punish you.
Took me a few tries to find the timing but i think its practical more so than trying to land CH > U2 in a match.
Maybe at first youll get it around 1 in 3/4 tries during a real match but once you get comfortable i think good players will have no trouble hit confirming it.
I land nj.hk all the time so i’ll have to start incorporating this into my game right away.
Though lately i’ve just been using U2 as a anti jump in wake up option and from block string xx lp rcf focus cancel hit/block dash forward/back xx U2 to catch abare players.
U2 has so little charge time it’s surprising, almost exactly 2 seconds.
I also tried nj.mk as well and was unsuccessful. It just needs the hit stun from HK or RH to connect.
And honestly, I think the way you’re using it is the right way to use it. I think he needs to hold on to it just so he can have a wakeup option handy. Perhaps this may become useful, maybe not, but I think it’s certainly worth looking into.
That’s a nice tool to have. NJ on some wakeups almost always hits cuz people always want to try and grab or anti air you. Def a lot more useful than the CH one, I might go back to using the BHC so I can stay offensive and get a little more damage if I land this in a match.
figured out why late j.hp and j.hk and nj.hk to u2 work.
its because of the stun animation.
test it on ken :
if you do j.hp/rh early kens head will reel back
if you do it late his leg will bend in (this is the animation you want for u2 to connect)
now i was going through all of vegas move and one other move also gives this animation.
c.mk, now i tried to do it on normal hit but couldn’t do it but…
put it on counter hit and c.mk > link u2 works.
The same goes for nj.hk if there are two different animations if you connect with it late or early (the late hit stun animation is what you want). So now im trying to go through the hit stun animations of late nj.hk and see what else i can get to work.
still not practical but this might help with further lab work and figuring out vega’s properties more.
Great find eiyujpn. I noticed the stun animations as well when I was collecting the damage, but wasn’t sure how to write it up or if it was even significant enough.
Like you’ve said, there are two different animation frames during hitstun for each character. One where you know when it’ll hit, and the other lets you know it’s too late and they will block.
interesting find with the cr.mk, I guess that means when using U2 we should go for more meaty wakeup cr.mks and hop the person tries to counter it. Maybe even a corpse hop into cr.mk might work sometimes and you’ll already be charging the ultra from the hop.
yesterday a friend of mine gave me a call, telling me that he played decent vega the other day who, and i am still unwilling to believe it, comboed the bloody high right after the ex fba. according to my friend who is a decent ryu player himself, he did it by cancelling the fba the moment he touched the wall. can someone confirm this please since i dont posses a console. im actually quite a console hater. tell me it isnt true people of srk. kisses
This isn’t a combo and doesn’t have anything to do with “canceling”, but is merely the way Vega’s Ultra 1 works now. Unlike in SF4, if a Vega player inputs the ultra command towards you and it isn’t blocked, it will pop you up on the way to the wall like an Ex-FBA, but the ultra flash won’t occur until Vega reaches the wall.
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