@wwmajin- You are right. I know helping people helps me too, but I work significantly faster (and get a lot better) when I just do things my way.
Posting things here and making videos are very time consuming for me, and it helps me less than just doing my own thing; so it is kind of motivating to see some form of response, or knowing that people actually care.
I’d say I’m pretty high level and I use it a lot. The main thing is not to get carried away with using it and mix it up with safe jumps and kara throws so you don’t fall into patterns.
I would also like to thank you for putting this thread together. I have spent so much time making notes on a sheet of paper, covering tons of pages of threads looking for info and you have succinctly put it all right here!
I actually like playing games with this thread open, everytime I do I try something I haven’t before.
I also have a desire to contribute to the thread, although most of what I have to contribute either isn’t effective, or has been discussed ad nauseum. Upon looking at what you have in the thread, there may be one combo that isn’t on the list that may be worth mentioning.
That would be s.lk, S.HK (150 damage) (250 stun) C.HP can also be used, but I think it comes out 1 frame slower, not too sure on that one.
At least for Vanilla values anyway, but iirc, the damage values on that move haven’t changed in super.
I haven’t done extensive testing by any means on it, but maybe there could be a way to bait out a reaction from the opponent by flipping and doing an immediate follow up, but I don’t think it recovers fast enough to do so.
FADC cl.hp sometimes, REALLY catches your opponent off guard, and makes meaty cl.hp an even better tool to use.
Thanks for all your new input, guys.
I had some success lately with PoM followed with cr.LK xx EX FBA. The cr.LK will not hit after max range PoM, but just from a little bit under it.
The front page post is beautifully organized Majin. A little thing I noticed going through the hit-box images:
Notice those green-lined boxes that start at Vega’s waist and only go up? That’s the area where Vega is vulnerable to fireballs. Not only is he making himself smaller by scrunching up in the air, but he can’t even be hit by a projectile below the waist. Meaning that jab is amazing for neutral jumping over fireballs.
Updated the main post, put in a hitbox explanation (which i “borrowed” from the original hitbox thread, thanks to tonylew84.) and new sections for Corpse Hop and PoM, and some few minor corrections.
One section thats missing is option selects, I hope you have some input for me on that topic, I have a few of them, but dont have the time to write them together right now.
I’m really getting more and more into frame data, studying it, remembering, searching for possible new and interesting stuff. We have frame advantage on hit/block, but what I’m really missing is frame advantage on knockdown. I think there’s a small possibility we can find more safe jumps and safe follow ups with it. I could record and analyze the footage on our standard knockdowns (Izuna, ST, f and b throw) and calculate how many frames we have before the opponent gets up and can do something (to calculate setups). What do you guys think? Useful or waste of time?
And yeah, the hitbox data for specials and co is coming some time in the future when I have the time and motivation for it…
I really like this thread! Good job.
Maybe there should be section dedicated to the specific use of options in different situations? For example, a list of anti air normals and specials, and how to use them?
I’m starting to occasionally apply offensive option selects in my games now:
cr.lp (df.hk or cr.hk), cr.lp/cr.mp
This is an intermediate-skill option select that will pressure backdashes and move you forward when you are attacking with cr.lp and wiff. The trick is to do the cr.lp > cr.lp/mp link and squeeze a df.hk or cr.hk input inbetween the link at the right spot (about in the middle). A wiffed move recovers faster than a move that hits/is blocked, and the middle move will only be able to come out if the cr.lp wiffs completely. You can still keep a downward charge while doing any of this.
If the first cr.lp is blocked, the next cr.lp will come out and you can go for a kara throw afterwords
If the first cr.lp hits, the next cr.lp should hit and you can react to follow up with cr.mp into ex-fba
If the first cr.lp wiffs, your choice of df.hk (shorter recovery) or cr.hk (faster startup) will come out and catch some backdashes or avoid something like an ex-headstomp.
cr.lp into cr.mp alone (and even just a cl.hp) might automatically catch backdashing, but being able to attempt a knockdown or juggle OS can be situationally valuable. It also forces the opponent to deal more directly with basic throw/bait pressure. I’ve known about all of this for a while but didn’t want to talk about it before I could actually start using it.
i’ve been doing this for a while, ch os is only good for people with shitty backdashes though
I tried the throw, jump back MP on Yang and Yung last night. I’ve yet to see it get stuffed, but its hardly been exaustive testing. At the very least, it beats SOME of what they throw out.
I move that this be stickied. All in favor…?
cr.lp is intresting in this option select when you want to followup with EX FBA combo on hit.
for those looking for a simpler one or when short on meter fst.LK is a good alternate.
1 - it has a better range and allows me to be out of grab rabge on wake up and at a distance where player are naturally lured into using less dragon punch. makes things safer.
2 - it has only 7 recovery instead of 8 giving me an extra frame to connect on the backdash option. makes it easier
3 - it is +5/+6 on hit which means I have an extra frame on the link into cr.mp or st.hk, makes sthings easier.
4 - it doesn’t require hit confirm
It is easier but it is lower risk lower reward
An even easier variation of that backdash punish is to use a cancel option select instead of an impact freeze option select.
cr.lp/lk xx lp.RCF (CH / cr.HK) will only cancel if cr.lp connects if it doesn’t the RCF input will be ingnored and HK will outrpioritise LP giving a slide or a cosmic heel.
on block it is a true block string, it generates very decent meter, on whiff you stuff the backdash. it requires a lot of charge though.
To perfect those one can even perform the first cr.lp/cr.lk as a crouchin grab tech OS, which prevents the grab problems you can encounter at that range.
If one of you like to experiment that it **might **even be possible to try a double cancel using input leniency
trying cr.lk+cr.lp xx lp.RCF (-- EX FBA)
trying to finish the lp.RCF motion at the very end of impact freeze and then then shifting slowly but not too slowly to up forward + 2 kicks
Maybee, and i mean it, maybee, the same motion will give RCF cancel on hit/block but a buffered EX FBA on whiff. Though I really am not sure we can abuse the leniency for this much as 6-7 frames even on special EX moves. Just some experiments for you execution maestro’s…
Good stuff adjunta, I will definitely think more about cancel-OSs. It’s the kind of thing that would guarantee chip damage or a punish vs some characters.
Extremely Safe Jump-in Pressure vs KD’d Guile : (followup from a ST, Izuna, or far cr.HK slide)
Timing/spacing for the jump: Attack Guile right on his wakeup with a j.HP that is as far back on guile as possible, almost so that it misses from being too far back. In training mode you can find this space by looking at the distance between Guile’s and Vega’s feet: it should be barely more than the size of Vega’s own foot. Make sure your spacing hits guile both standing and crouching.
The OS: While jumping in, hold strait down on the joystick (not down back) and press HP, HK, MK so that the HP is a meaty attack, the HK is an OS slide that will only come out if the HP misses, and the MK will come out upon touching the ground (unless the HK activates). Done correctly, this shuts down all of Guile’s options and forces him to block high (breaking his charge) and opens up your ability to frame trap or grab or simply do something else because Guile is respecting the OS.
Here is what happens when Guile tries to escape with:
Any Flash Kick: Guile goes under Vega, and the HK slide catches up to him putting Vega in a good position to punish (cr.Mp Ex-FBA). This also means he can’t Flashkick FADC.
Backdash: HK slide KD’s Guile
Focus backdash: HP absorbed as Guile dashes out, but cr.MK hits Guile out of the dash and he takes all that damage.
Focus forwarddash: Eats both the HP and cr.MK and you can combo into cr.mp Ex-FBA
Ultra1: HK input happens during ultra flash and Vega has time to block or possible U2 to avoid chip if you charge fast. Not sure if Vega can flip in time or safely.
Ultra2: Vega lands behind Guile (surprise!) and can punish freely. Again, OS inputs get absorbed by the ultra flash and don’t come out.
Super: Guile damages Vega with one or two hits as Guile goes under and away from Vega. Vega can punish.
huhu excellent stuff, always thought it was sad the regular safe jump did not work with him… 
Keep up the good work guys! Seriously, this is all gold.
Something beast i discovered while watching pr rog.
cr.lp , walkback , cr.mp xx rcf
eats up crouch tech and gives you decent damage
ok after playing makoto, i kinda learned how to do meaties. so the question now is…does vega have any good meaty setups? if yes then what are they?
