Heya Vegas! New poster to the SRK forums here but a long time lurker :D.
I’ve been wondering has anyone found out some good setups after 2x cosmic heel + ExST or other combo ending with only one hit of the ST hitting? I know the damage ain’t that great but if there were some good setups after that it might be worth doing once in a while. I’m just too lazy to find out myself atm. :3
The only thing with enough juggle potential to hit would be super. I think you could land SHC after 1 hit of
ST if you have the height though
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The problem with finding setups after ST’s is that the ST can hit in a variety of positions and timings. Unlike Izuna which always results in the same relative recovery, after an ST there is a whole range of slightly different times that the opponent hits the ground relative to when Vega recovers. Even if you land ST at the same frame and positioning, some characters (like T Hawk) will float in the air for different amounts of time. ST’s are also not hard knockdowns, meaning the opponent can choose to quickrise or not, again adding a little uncertainty to the followup timing.
You should rely on a standard manually-timed (on-the-fly) mixup or setup, such as one that you might use any other time you knock down the opponent or catch them at a frame disadvantage. Go for an eyeballed safe-jump or tech/srk-bait or meaty attack into a frame trap or kara throw.
Some possible options after any knockdown:
Poke as they get up with cr.LP, cr.MK, or far.LK and confirm into a combo if they get hit, and try poking again or choose a different option if they block. Keeps them from jumping away or pressing buttons.
Delay slightly and then choose another option. Avoids some SRKs and can catch throw-techs really hard.
Throw them, or poke then throw them.
Act like you are going to attack or throw, but just block or back off. Avoids all SRKs (bait).
Jump in and attack very late into the jump as they get up. Hard to tell if you are attacking, is safe vs some reversals.
Jump in as they get up and dont press any buttons. Safe vs all SRKs (see #4).
Jump in as they get up, and only attack low when you hit the ground. Hard to tell you are attacking low, not safe vs reversals.
Jump in late but at a tricky angle that avoids SRK’s and punishes backdashes. Can sometimes be dodged by low crouching attacks.
Attack in a way that will catch a backdash or particular reversal you expect.
Learn an option select to combine a poke or jump-in with #9
Do a meaty EX.FBA to clip their back as a crossup.
Not necessarily. .It’s true that CH-ST knockdown duration does vary a bit, but not that much in fact. Wake-up should be around 61 ±1 frames according to some measurements I did. It’s more variable than Izuna’s 59th frame, but that still an occasion to setup safe-jumps, corse-hops and meaties.
Your meaties’s max accuracy will be ±1, but that’s still enough to fish for counterhits and other button presses. With precise setups, you do know if you’re frame trapping or not, so you can lessen the risk of mistiming your attack. For example clHP getting grabbed during startup => wouldn’t happen if done meaty. =)
Ok, I always thought there can’t be much variation with wakeup frames from ST, since I can consistently land a lot of the meaties after that. But you’re saying Izuna drop has some variations with the wakeup frames O_o? I’ve never noticed that.
one of the setup that i’ve been working on in the lab based on the video i posted, after a scarelt terror, jump, and the last frame or 2 before landing, do an air throw, you’ll magically land on the other side. after some thorough tests, there are the characters it DOESN’T works on:
ehonda
ibuki
dudley
c.viper
hakan
blanka
zangief
el furete
balrog
thawk
guy
these characters are possible but really hard and it can be random sometimes
rose
balrog
dhalsim
abel
bison
I said CH-ST wake-up time « is more variable than Izuna’s 59th frame ».
So I didn’t said it was variable. I only measured it once, and as it is a hard knockdown and it game the same results as Meteo2, I didn’t go further. It’s probably not variable. Probably. =)
That’s kind of a funny « corpse-hop » setup. And you should still be at frame advantage after it (nearly +16 in fact).
But it only works only after a grounded ST, does it ? I couldn’t get it with CH-ST…
on certain characters it’s harder, try the shoto’s, they’re way easier. and yes, it works with CH-ST, even with ex ST. remember, you have to be almost touching the ground before you can press grab. for small characters like shoto’s, you have like a 3-4 frame tolerance, for medium characters like chun, it’s like 1-2, for big, it’s impossible
Okay so basically, against Ryu, after an izuna, sweep, then BHC backwards. When Rugal and I tested it, it can’t be backed with front or back. The problem is, it can be DUCKED. So I’m trying to test and find a way to time it to always hit on meaty, kinda like how Cammy or Hakan can abuse the wakeup standing frame. Not going so well.
The easiest way to do it I found was to just do it on reaction to their wakeup animation. That way you don’t have to do BHC on frame 1 after the slide and you just do it on reaction to their getting up. Main problem with that is that it doesn’t hide the beginning frames of BHC so you may bounce a bit which might be a visual cue for them to defend properly. You could always delay the BHC if you think that they will backdash and catch their backdash or hit them if they block forward.
If there was a way to memorize the timing of when to do the slide, then you could wait a bit after the knockdown and then slide while inputting the BHC so that it comes out 1st frame after slide finishes. This was too difficult for me at the time so I used the method that I described above.
If you still find it too difficult what you can do is practice slide x wait a bit x ex FBA to try to get the timing of the crossup BHC.
Edit: Oh my mistake. You are talking about the other crossup BHC.
meteo, it’s actually really easy to do. I can do it 99% of the time(only because I refuse to say 100%, but I’ve never messed it up), but it isn’t helping finding a real setup
Mmm… I figured out why I can never get them standing with the unblockable u1 meaty. When they hold downback, they go instantly in to crouch block animation because u1 has a block trigger box, so they can go instantly into crouch without standing first. On the other hand, Cammy’s Hooligan, Guy’s Bushin Flip, and Hakan’s running grab work because grabs don’t have the block triggering box. So I guess it’s useless to keep trying. Sorry guys