Hmmm… I always use a sweep to setup the crossup EX FBA, but that HK ST is looking more delicious because of the meter buildup. I’ll probably learn to consistently do it with all the setups though, just so it’s more dynamic and harder to see. I love you meteo, yes homo. All of this is going into my Vega encyclopedia~
That’s a lot of work, meteo. Good shit right there.
I know a lot of my EX FBA timing without giving indications that I’m going to do it (I blame playing Bison with his PC crossups) so time to get this one down to a T haha.
Ha, thx for the love all, back at ya! Honestly most of the data has been sitting on my computer for months and it was just time to dump it. It started out as a project to test setups vs the cast, but I just never got past testing this one setup because it ballooned into all these possibilities that depended so keenly on the tiniest details x.x
Like with the HK.ST method sometimes you get different results if you accidentally make Vega walk forward a couple pixels when you input the ST (so do it right after the Izuna Drop so it comes out on the first frame possible). Yeah it took forever haha, but at least I know that if it wiffs on Frame B (too early) then it must wiff on Frame A (even earlier), so I didn’t have to test anything I knew wouldn’t work. The occasional surprises made it worthwhile, especially finding those 2-Frame opportunities.
It was interesting to see the similarities between all of the character’s hitboxes, and it also shows evidence for characters that stand up off the ground at different timings than the majority of the cast (likely Blanka Vega and Dhalsim stand up a frame slower, possibly Sagat too, and Hakan is in his own world…).
I wanna know wtf is up with Hakan XD
He takes a while to wake up.
guy has like 6 daughters? he needs his rest… good shit meteo that will be very helpfull information.
does this mean that for everyone that can be crossed over on frame A you can just do EX FBA instantly after izuna drop slide?
You can cross up any character with that setup, but only 5 characters share the Frame A timing. To clarify, Frame A is simply the first frame where a crossup is possible versus certain characters.
I didn’t want to call it Frame 1 because it’s not the first frame after immediately doing an Izuna then cr.HK. Frame A occurs a certain amound of time after the Izuna and represents the exact moment you launch the Ex.FBA crossup attempt. However, Frame B is exactly one frame later than frame A. It’s possible to put an exact number on it but I don’t know what is is - something definitely more than 40+ frames after you recover from the Izuna (cr.HK only lasts 37 frames I think) .
If you closed your eyes and dialed in the exact same timing each time for Frame A, you’d cross up those 5 characters in the Frame A column every time, but you would have done it too early for the rest of the cast.
I think the best way to practice is to take a visual queue from your opponent’s wake up animation - like for character X, slide up and wait for them to kick their feet in the air before launching. It will be hard to learn for every character, unless you know who you are going to fight ahead of time or vs any of those 2-frame opportunity characters.
This is quite interesting because someone once told me vega cannot cross up FBA at point blank…I use the slide with a lot of success by doing> Izuna and hold down, wait until vega crouches, as soon as he is in crouching position slide then immediately ex fba.
Time for more breakdowns! Let me know if there’s any suggestions for the next one. I didn’t do this test for any reason, just kind of picked it out of a hat.
Option Select: meaty cr.LP OS with perfect df.HK (Cosmic Heel)
Ok, so you know the option select where if your cr.LP wiffs then a df.HK comes out? Often it seems pretty choppy and hard if not impossible to make work, so many of us have chosen to just use cr.LP OS’d with cr.HK instead since its always pretty reliable. However, wouldn’t you rather punish that backdash with a big, sexy, df.HK into much bigger damage? Well I wanted to push the limits of this OS and see if you did a perfect meaty cr.LP (hitting only on the second attack frame) from point blank and OSing the df.HK on the first frame possible, who it would catch…
“Meaty Test” shows if my cr.LP to cr.HP combo worked as part of my OS, or if the setup was too early or too late compared to the rest of the cast (therefore ruining the setup’s certainty). The Backdash column shows if the opponent’s wakeup-backdash was hit by the OS df.HK in the corner at point blank and in the open at mid-screen. Any time the df.HK was blocked post-backdash in the open, it was near the tip and not punishable by 3-frame moves (although there may still may have been frame disadvantage).
http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/9641/osmcrlpperfectdfhk.png
To make sure my cr.LP was meaty, with the OS I used the combo cr.LP into cr.HP which only works (besides on counterhit) as a meaty. By looking at the frame data I figured a meaty cr.LP’s recovery upon the opponent’s wakeup was 1+8 plus the startup of df.HK (+14) should be able to catch at best any backdash that lasted 23 frames or longer. I tried several times until I started catching 23-frame backdashes! 23 frames is the best this setup can do, and for every frame your opponent’s backdash is longer, this setup becomes that much more easy (won’t require a meaty or perfect df.HK).
Surprisingly, this test blew away some of my previous notions about various character’s wakeup times. I set up my OS with a point-blank cr.HK, and I’ve noted the characters that seemed to wake up at times unlike the rest. Because none of those chars had an exact 23-frame backdash, I can not be sure if I have attained a perfect df.HK on them - but I marked what I suspected was the case.
Here is a list of all characters’ backdash duration in AE. Any character with a dash 22 Frames or faster cannot be hit by this setup, unless you use the faster-recovery far.st.LK instead of cr.LP (which gives you one extra frame of df.HK speed). For every frame after 22/23 that an opponent’s backdash lasts, that is an extra frame of leniency where you don’t have to be perfect on all aspects of the OS. Note that cr.MK is only frame frame slower than cr.LP in recovery, and can be used to possibly catch backdashes that last 24+ frames.
Fricken hell meteo. You’re an excellent lab worker to be fair. Can’t wait until my two weeks off from work just to sit down with all of this. I use Slide OS more than CH, but learning the proper CH OS would be nice. Free 268 damage and oki pressure. can’t be complained about.
Thanks for the great contributions, Meteo. I will put this in the first post when I find the time.
@all: I’m planning a big consolidation round for the first post. Please post whatever you think is worth being part of it.
Awesome, yeah I’ve just been in the mood to do some lab work now that I can record my game and look at each frame.
The problem is, most of this is just tinkering around and not reflected on enough in terms of strategy. Personally, I think a good idea would be to make a separate “Vega Labwork” thread where we (or I…) can do a lot of this testing stuff, and then later on move to here if the technique is worth its salt in competitive play.
Here’s some stuff I compiled today - some frame data you won’t find on the wiki is underlined.
How many frames faster does Vega recover after these knockdowns?
Forward Throw: 25 frames to move before your opponent
Back Throw: 36 frames faster
Izuna Drop: 59 frames faster
Scarlet Terror: variable
cr.HK: variable
How long do your wiffed positioning moves last?
forward.dash takes up 20 frames total
df.HK takes up 32 frames total
df.MK takes up 35 frames total
cr.HK takes up 37 frames total
Scarlet Terror (any) takes up 39 frames
forward.jump takes up 43 frames
LP.RCF takes up 50 frames
How fast do some common attacks start up in?
f/b.throw grabs on frame 3 (2 attack frames)
kara.f/b.throw grabs on frame 4 (2 attack frames)
cr.LP and cr.MP hit on frame 4 (2 attack frames)
st.HK hits on frame 4 (2 then immediately another 2 for the second part)
st.far.LK hits on frame 5 (2 attack frames)
cr.MK hits on frame 6 (3 attack frames)
st.close.HP hits on frame 9 (3, then another 3 after 7 non-attack frames)
LP.RCF hits on frame 9 (9, then another 4 after 7 non-attack frames)
EX.FBA hits on frame 9 (lasts until wall)
jumpback.HP hits on frame 10 (hits on frame 5 if already airborn)
df.HK hits on frame 14 (5 attack frames)
df.MK hits on frame 20 (3 attack frames)
I guess I have to go through this sub forum and give every single post you made since registering a "like"
awesome!
thinking of picking up Vega. subbing to the thread.
Not to shameless plug, but as a starting point, you might want to begin;
The guide gets continued when AE 2012 drops (It’ll be getting adjustments too), it’s senseless going further when we had a patch announced at Evo when I was halfway through frame traps.
Still hoping for big changes? How cute 
Caught myself still hoping too, but I should know better…
Haven’t really played in the last few weeks / months except for a few local casuals, think I need to hit up the lab again and update this thing…
ill see u in germany begin december majin 
Looking forward to it 
Hopefully I will get some training in this time not like before Colonge :oops:
Don’t patronize me. And no, I’m not, but if they pull a stunt like last time and “Forget” to note additional change (like the Izuna grab box change) then I don’t want to miss anything. I already know Capcom don’t give two fucks about Vega, so I’m happy with what I’ve got.