Keep in mind Vega wont be losing his Cpsmic Heel. The example you gave with Gief isn’t an ideal, Gief has the fastest specials in the game and isn’t used much nowadays. Cosmic Heel isn’t the sort of tool I’d overuse in that match up at present anyway because it is relatively easy to react to.
You don’t have to tell me of all people that damage isn’t center to this game anymore, hence why I neglect the relevance of the damage nerf. I just feel that maybe if CH is less safe people will consider other options. So while you think damaging the power of CH takes from Vega is true I believe the point is to open people up to other things other than textbook Vega tricks, Cosmic Heel has been the center of Claw’s universe too long simply because it’s safe and people’s reactions arent good enough to take advantage of the slow start up.
As for SC I think it’s only good for keeping people on the ground and punishing those tighter errors. Which is actually very good in all honesty but it really needed to be combo-able to reinforce itself. With a better crouching medium kick SC keeping an opponent grounded should be more useful and even open up more opportunities to focus crumple opponents.
Actually yes it is. Why wouldnt you want to pressure gief? Why wouldnt you want him to take a risk. You can grab lariat, you can grab EX Green hand. What can he do if you space it right. And if you dont attack and pressure he is going to walk you to the corner with st.lk os EX Green hand and st.mp. Stand your ground and make him respect your game. There is nothing better than being max kara throw range and throwing him for whiffing st.mp.
And so what if its the center of the universe? Its good, it works, and its has dynamic options. And using CH properly does not allow the opponent react to it. Its a combination tool. By itself its shit. Add kara throws its ok. Add cr.mp its still shit. Combine it with your normals, kara-throws, neutral jumps, slide, cr.mk RCF cancels, and fast walk speed And its god. and you cant react to it because your are to busy looking for that cr.mk or cr.lp or whatever during footsies. Im hiding it so you cant punish me. Smart use of CH does not make it punishable unless you are being stupid with it, or he took a gamble and it paid of. And removing CH is not going to magically add options. All its going to do is make morons who over use CH and cr.mp to start using normals like cr.mk, cr.lk, st.mp, st.lk more and actually make them see the options that where there to begin with. And cr.mp xx EX RCF doesnt add options. If it can link to cr.mp guess what. You are in the same positon you where if you had done cr.mp xx EX FBA.
And your anti-gief example failed the moment you said
no one uses him so it really doesnt count. The point of the game is to know your option against said character and apply them when playing some one else. You obviously dont go to a tourney expecting to win with out knowing match ups, and there is nothing more infuriating than losing a match because you didnt know what to expect.
As for Ultra2 it isnt a great once people learn how to properly meaty you, safe jump you, and start mixing it up.
P.S making CH +2 perfectly spaced is a big deal. You lose it all togheter. Even if you space it, you are taking a bigger risk than they are if you decide to follow up. That means that instead of being -3 at spaces you are now -4. As if I needed to give my opponents more options to hurt me more and knock me down and give the the green arrow to pressure me.
Well they said that these changes arn’t definite but that makes me wonder because they already announced that they finished development with ssf4 AE… im still hoping for I frames for scarlet terror ^^
Ok Pedo, if you want to switch then good for you :rolleyes:
I wasn’t trying to reinforce something when I said Gief is underused. Although in my opinion it’s true. I’ve played around Asia a lot and hardly see Gief anymore.
When I was actively playing Claw, versus Zangief I normally kept my CHs to a minimum. Just my personal approach and I won a lot of matches without it. Claw did perfectly fine with a smart mix up of instant overheads, well placed jump ins and EX FBA punishes. And when I say fine I mean honest to God, 4:6 or even 5:5 for Claw v Gief.
And the reason I said your example ISNT ideal is that not everyone can punish as hard or quickly as Gief, so the Gief match up changes or gets worse but what about the other characters? If you intend to theory fight, try the other angles as well as the worst possible one.
Look no beef, but I think negativity against something that hasn’t even been tested extensively first hand is so narrow minded. In the context of AE a lot of stuff changed with a lot characters. For example I think the Ryu match up will be much better now but I think the Ken match up will be much worse so weighing it up the nerf to CH contributes to that but also prompts players to reinvent Vega’s approach slightly.
Good thing I dropped Vega a while back. Things aren’t sounding positive for him. Better footsies but worse absolutely everything else. Looks like Splendid Claw is gonna be about as good for AA as Bison’s Nightmare Booster.
Good. I hope everyone drops Vega except for me then when I win EVO2k11 with him, you’ll all come crawling back! So funny how you people are already being so negative when we haven’t seen shit yet, just as Dontdothat said. Ah well… I suppose that sort of thing is common around here. People like to bitch and whine about everything.
Go. Run to your precious tier lists. They will mean a DEAD MOOSE’S LAST SHIT in the end.
Fine, its just obvious you arent understanding how this is changing matchups fundementally.
Its 5-5 match up period. Where you have to play footsies otherwise you get walked to the corner, this isnt SF4. I just saw Thai Vega on the recorded stream play Vance (best Gief in the World). He got so fucking bulldogged to the corner by Vance because he was afraid to engage. Back away, land a “smart jump in”, punish with EX FBA, use cr.mp here, blah, blah, blah. That doesn’t work.
That +1 frame that Vega may potentially lose will affect all match ups. Its no longer that scary. What dont you get about that? Changing it isnt going to make match ups easier for claw. Taking options never make things easier, they make them harder and stupid. And making cr.mk +6 is going to do what? Make an already used and common frame trap more obvious to idoits who are to afraid to even attempt things like that because they are afraid of a reversal?
Lets think about this. In SSF4 Vega could always be put in a situation where he was +3 frames when spaced right, and CH was used in conjuction with all of his tools. That made his footsies real good. Now in AE he potentially wont be +3, chances are he is either +2 or +1. Seeing as to how they suposedly added +frames too the end of EX RCF, you are supposedly now +4 on hit. What about block? Is it +1, or +2, maybe +3. Either way its fucking stupid. Now I have to use meter to start an offense, which doesnt even leave me in the same ideal position CH left me at. All for what? So that when i do cr.mp xx EX RCF i can combo after it or make FADC cancels easier, or to reinvent? Thats the stupidest shit ive heard all day. Take away offensive options to add more defensive options.
No one said anything about tier list to fucking begin with. Why are you so fixated on tier lists by the way? Sorry for wanting to play a game that actually has options. And good luck winning Evo online with Vega, especially when he has no respectable offensive options, which this game is all about.
Evo online? Sonny, I’m talking about real EVO. Yeah!
Also, how can you say I’m the one fixated on tier lists when everyone else is bitching away at how much worse he’s going to be? I mean… I goes hand in hand? The worse you are, the lower you are on the tier list.
You keep saying that we are going to go main top tier. Using characters that have options dont make you a tier whore. Saying he is going to suck says exactly what it say. He is going to suck. And good luck winning Evo 2k11 with a character that needs meter to start an offense.
well cMP is 4 frame startup currently… if EX RCF is +4 on hit you could potentially have a pseudo infinate just by cancelling cMP into EX RCF into cMP into EX RCF. you could only do it for as long as you had meter tho… unless it’s blanka… you can actually cancel cMP and combo into MP RCF on him. you’re lookin at a good potential 20%-30% damage from one combo if you have full meter…
Your only landing cr.mp xx EX RCF in a match of a puhisment. Why would you waste 4 bars for 40% yes scaling is going to rape it, and cr.mp nerf is going to prevent it from doing more than 50% The only redeming quality is stun. when you could do cst.hp - cr.mp xx EX FBA thats already 30% percent for 1 bar.