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dude vega’s backdash HAS been nerfed.more airborne frames means that its not going to be as fast.
I looked at the frame data. Airborne frames after invincibility means during the 22 frames of his backdash, the first 8 are invincible like normal and instead of frames where you are airborne beginning at 10 frames they begin at 9. This means you are not considered grounded immediately after your backdash invincibility.
In other words, it’s a huge buff. Now you won’t get thrown out of your damn backdashes NOR will you get ground combo’d out of others! Backdashes got buffed with that wording, I can’t imagine why being air reset out of a backdash would be worse than getting full combo’d. Hell, I’m way more interested in the fact that backdashes can’t be thrown until their recovery! That’s so godlike!!!
I’m going off of
Actually, it just says that he is considered airborne after the I-frames run out. Which is pretty much the same ever since Vanilla. I think the backdash is going to remain the same. I think you’re looking to deep into it but who knows.
I also don’t understand what you mean by cr.mk and cl.fr having the same start up. Cr.mk = 6 frames start up and cl.fr= 9 frames. Cr.mk is a nice tool when used as a frame trap, but it’s just overshadowed by CH. Though now, it can have it’s uses. Cl.fr is a good meaty but ass when it comes to using as a frame trap. Horrible range+slow start up.
Also, OS tech on block after a CH will still be very much possible so long as he is not -3(or more) on block.
man I hope these changes don’t mess vega up to much. Will c.mk buff open up any more combos?
I get frame traps with st. fierce all the time, i can’t imagine what you are using as a frame trap with cosmic heel. I use it to maneuver out of throw range but that’s a lot more risky than close fierce in terms of positioning after and frame advantage. Not to mention I cancel close fierce into blockstring RCF’s all the time to guarantee being able to push characters like Balrog with no meter or others to the corner in one safe jump.
Like, outside of some frame traps with pokes out of the knee and c. mk, what frame traps are you using with cosmic heel.
The only one I know of outside of ones that aren’t actually frame traps is deeeeeep jump in fierce to CH. It’s a one frame link in terms of how you time your jump in so i tend to prefer close fierce
For that reason, st. fierce is just as good as the others. you have to mix up timing, close fierce is awesome cause of where it puts you and the fact that since you get safe jumps after so many key knockdowns you can always lay it onto people. Breaks focus, beats backdashes, all that good stuff. Seriously, it’s godlike. Cosmic Heel has plenty of limitations and I can see it becoming a little obsolete if it’s not punshing but it’s not THAT bad, it’s still a pretty good gamble against a lot of characters with bad frame data. We’ll have to see just where it ends up.
And like I Said I’ve been thrown out of many, many backdashes. Now it won’t happen until your 3 frames of recovery. that’s insane, i actually just looked up how long most people are airborne and vega, proportinately, is on the ground LESS than ANYBODY. so technically his backdash got buffed super bad. Seriously I can’t be the only one whose been thrown out of backdashes, i don’t believe that for a second.
As it is now c. mk is 8 and close fierce is 9. Not much diversity in terms of timing added to your frame trap, cause nobody whose good at teching throws techs at the same time anyways. now you have a more diverse tool set that doesn’t require you to sacrifice range by counter poking with c. mk.
I realize OS tech would not be possible w/ 3 frames.
CH is much more malleable IMO. You can effectively use it as a frame trap from any range (though preferably at around Kara throw range) off of any normal poke/block string so long as you are in kara/regular throw range.
As for a meaty, it can leave you at more frame advantage than a cl.fr in which case you can set up more frame traps with cr.jab/cr.shorts. Though cl.fierce has it’s uses as a meaty, it’s not as effective as df.rh when it comes to frame traps. It’s not a coincidence Makoto whores that move all day lol.
As for me stating cr.mk = 6 frames start up, I was referring to AE Vega.
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Amen Pedo, Fuck this, Capcom its just fucking Vega everytime they touch him…
I love the character, but all those changes dont fell like “buffs”…
Im not saying Joz is wrong, i guess he is just too optimistic about the nerfs…
But CH was the one thing that any Vega player could rely on… now they cant…
What did we win? NOTHING… (when you compare it to the losses).
Its very frustrating to see a character like Fei long getting mayor buffs…
With that i say good by to Vega…
Im guessing theyre gonna make his RCF kind of like Guy’s shoulder thing?
Where the non EX are kinda slow and the EX version is instant?
Wow, hello bottom tier and vanilla all over again.
More recovery on CH and more startup on SC is HUGE, even one frame more is bad, 2 or more is just fucking the character over… CH not safe on block anymore (regardless of spacing), possibly no more CH-ST and totally free on wake-up again???
Yeah, 6f startup on cr.MK is pretty good, BUT we’re getting a damage nerf… Great…
And who the fuck cares about EX RCF? You still cant combo into it and its only purpose is going throw fireballs, which you have to predict or are standing close enough to do a jump-in combo on reaction anyways, with more damage and only 1 EX bar.
Im pretty mad and disappointed right now, seeing the shotos got nothing but buffs and we get one “buff” nobody cares about, one move with better frames to the cost of 2 worse and damage reduction…
I keep hearing mixed things about EX RCF. Some people are saying it’s faster so now you CAN combo into it from Cr. MP and then there are people saying it’s the other way around and that EX RCF gives enough advantage to combo Cr. MP after wards. So which one is it? Is the translation incorrect somehow?
I still think a well spaced Cosmic Heel will be safe, but no one knows for sure right now.
Damage reduction wont be greater then 10 I bet for the crouching mediums which is not really a big deal. Improved frames on the crouching Medium kick is really great because some of the other characters crouching medium kicks got nerfed.
The backdash news sounds good to me, re-enforced by what Jozhear says about being thrown out of back dashing.
Just to clarify, using Cosmic Heel as the latter part of a frame trap (like the late j hp one Joz mentioned) is not what we’re upset about, its not affected in that way.
It’s using Cosmic Heel to set up a frame trap, like spacing it so you have the advantage on block and then punishing the opponents tech or normal with a cr lp combo. That is what is possibly getting taken from us.
I am really hoping Splendid Claw is like a 1 frame increase haha. Wishful thinking, but I’ll be so sad if CH juggle or wakeup AA is significantly affected. I was getting really good at punishing baited srk’s with CH > SC, and its already easy enough to safe jump the Ultra. Right now they seriously have to jump in like a retarded chimpanzee to get hit with U2, but the point is that without it everyone WILL be jumping in on Vega like retarded chimpanzees.
Joz’ point about the backdash is pretty golden if it stays this way. I mean instead of eating a full os combo from Ken now i’ll just get pushed back to the corner. Which isn’t good either but I mean how many characters are gonna be able to chase us after that? Just hold a down charge and fba outta there asap. I know the animation he’s talking about and it’s way more ideal than being on the ground. And in a way, this change seems kinda ‘‘Vega-ish’’, maybe it’s just me though but with thought I do think that’s a buff. Well there area few characters where it’ll hurt more against(Honda) because of full screen punishes/pressure but just don’t backdash against them amirite?
Vega’s ground game has never been my strong suit.
These changes will probably bust him down in the tier list (if you believe them).
It’s a struggle to win already i hope that if this comes to consoles it doesn’t ruin him
I wouldn’t say it’s a struggle to win =/ We don’t have like bazillion matchups 6-4 7-3 not in our favour anymore, a lot of the roster is pretty even for us now. So that’s a moot point.
I’d also like to know on the EX RCF shenanigans, because I’ve read two sides also. Bloody translation errors are never fun.
I’m sticking to my point that CH nerf is a bit of a kick in the tits, but everything else on that list, I’m pretty much content with. Putting it in perspective now, that’s actually a bit of a buff for Vega’s backdash. Airborne quicker so getting tagged on backdash with low pokes may be a little harder for other characters?
lol kick in the tits
Why oh why did I pick up Vega? 
Fine, it would be a kick in the bollocks for you. Better? XD
How did they go from iframes on ST and CH buff to mostly nerfs…JESUS WTF???
You’re all a bunch of pansies. Suck it up!
:u: what he said