Vega AE Updates preview

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
21

Oh and fuck you Capcom, again. Now what the fuck is the point of using Ultra two. That wee bit of start up frames mean he doesnt have to safe jumped and you can jump all day long in. Good thing i started using Ultra 1. Thanks Capcom.

@everybody who says the changes are welcomed

You obviously dont know how to play at an decent level.

@guy above me

RCF is faster and can be used in block strings. Invul frames on ST. You cant pressure know, and you are now back to crap tastic on wake up. 10$ That bitch chuns back dash stays the same.

22

Off the top of my head, I would suggest a more reliable AA normal and better fwd dash… or neither of those but EX ST invincibility instead. I don’t know why they had to fuck with U2, it was very situational and close to uncomboable as it was.

There could be unforseen results from some of these changes that are positives, maybe allowing for some new setups and traps. As it’s listed though, it’s a poor trade-off. The ex rcf buff will only be truly useful against projectile characters.

23

As far as I am guessing, they probably only will buff ex rcf for more incentive to invest the meter. I feel if they could buff ultra 1 to automatically adjust his launching angle to score a hit, or at least similar to makoto’s ultra 2, that would be a decent start.

24

Specifically, I think they should change how his c.HP hits, iirc, it doesn’t hit remotely close to how it looks. In addition I wouldn’t mind being penalized for HITTING a normal shc, it’s -16 or something on hit, which imo no move should penalize you so harshly for scoring a hit.

25

Its supposed to land in the air. Shuts down a lot of seth mix ups when he is pressuring you with dive kicks, jumps, wall jumps, neutral jumps, and ambiguous cross ups.

And the meter investment is retarded. 200 damage, with absolutly no advantage? having frame advantage of two is meh in this game. It essentially becomes what Bison SK is in the Vega match up, except for Vega in every match up its more of a risk for Vega than the other character.

26

if we can combo ex rcf from max(maybe not max, well 3/4) distance of a cr.mp and cr.mk then that would justify the CH nerf IMO.

27

I thought Vega already was airborn during his backdash. Shows how much I know about this game’s mechanics. :rolleyes:

28

he right now has a fast backdash,although technically he’d be airborne for a couple of frames,its not enough for the opponent to take advantage of if he predicts your backdash.for eg:giefs option select u2 does not work on the current iteration of vega’s backdash.

anyways no use crying i guess,but i dont see the point to keep using claw right now till the ae version comes out.the way claw is meant to be played is going to go down the drain anyway.

29

It sounds like Vega is gonna have a whole different play style from what im reading…
I dunno maybe he might be better…
who knows…lets wait and see.

30

cr.mk startup. Sweet.

Everything else. STOP FUCKING AROUND WITH VEGA! They just royally screwed up his mixup and frame traps by doing that to Cosmic heel.

Though…I’d be lying if I said I didn’t like the idea of cr.MP xx EX RCF…

31

*Damage nerfs and CH nerf? Like Pedo most of my damage came from low forward hit confirms and frame traps. *

32

no

damage < frame advantage, mix up, pressure, options

as “gimmicky” CH is imo, superior and intellegent use of it makes it to good of a tool when mixed with cr.mk, kara-throw, cr.lp - cst.hp, cr.lp xx lp.RCF, frame traps, and well thought out jump ins. Nothing can make up for it. Not even comboable ultra or invul on ST. Now you have to use meter to do something half the things that CH would do. Guess ill start using Ryu/Ken since they are the only characters that are appealing tool wise, and i dont feel like learning a new shitty character. maybe Yang will be cool. And did you guys read on the Fei buffs? He was already damn good, really good.

33

You know, that was my problem, that it’s not that they are skimping with the buffs, fei got good buffs which I felt were given to places where it would benefit him strongly, but I was really disheartened by the vega changes, and am curious of their reasoning.

34

I thought his forward dash was getting an increase in speed?

35

^jai

Ono is an idiot. Ive known that since day one. I mean look at his pictures. I wouldnt trust anybody like that. And its funny how people still belive that bullshit. He said a lot of things. Guess not.

@Gaf

Its because you can win of kara throws and CH alone against shitty people, and even good players. Jai saw me. I beat this 5000 pp Ryu that was beasting on everybody, with kara throws and CH traps alone. Capcom doesnt want anything to be to strong in this game. And to them thats to strong a mix up, and you arent risking much, but in reality you are. Its so easy to DP a CH on reaction especially if its not being hidden under extremely smart use of your normals, kara’s and regular throws.

by the sound of things to, it looks like they want to make a CvsSnk 2 Vega. Super defensive, all ground based character that needs meter to initiate an attack. which explains the cr.mk buff. the SC nerf and the buff to EX RCF

Which btw i think is stupid.

36

It just sounds like ignorance on the ryu player’s part more than anything.

37

Wow Vega goes from D tier to C tier and Capcom has the pull the reigns back. Woooow there Vega, you’re getting a little too strong. You might end up in B tier if we keep this up. Better shove you back down in D tier where you belong.

I love Capcom’s response to not giving Vega an anti air. “We want it to be a challenge.” So wait, the other 90% of the cast gets anti-airs but Vega doesn’t be they want it to be a challenge? The character can’t get anyone off of him. Why wont you give him the ability to at least keep people off of him to begin with. Why isn’t s.HK a good anti air? If ST is gonna suck not matter what why can’t he have a good normal ant-air?

Capcom can not balance their fighting games.

38

no its not ignorance. Even against people that know, and can react to CH once you and they really understand the dynamics of CH and what it does for you. It can be used in ways that is some what safe, and unpredictable. But the risk is still there. But minimized to the point where the opponent is risking as much as you are. That is what makes it good, its a combination of tools. What kills this is not pushing buttons, but thats why you have Kara-thows.

@Sleepy

I laughed.

39

If Cosmic Heel is ends up being jab/DP punishable… then there goes all our frame traps… not to mention a reliable meaty as well. Not having +3 frames when spaced/meatied perfectly = harder to catch counter hits (we have one frame less leeway to catch opponents who mash jab/crouch tech). It’s not specified how much slower the recovery is going to be… I’m assuming that it’s one frame longer but if it’s two frames (-3 point blank)… the move becomes near useless not matter the range used. If it’s only -2 point blank (which I’m hoping is the case), it can still be used in a similar fashion to catch OS techs at kara throw range just like the way it’s used now, more or less. In the end, this move becomes less effective as an offensive tool but still most definitely not useless. The determining factor comes down to 1 frame… a single frame… let’s pray that it’s only one frame slower (please Capcom, don’t fuck up… PLEASE!).

Cr.mk being faster seems nice but it’s all going to come down to the frame advantage he gets on hit/block. It can actually end up being more of a nerf than a buff (hopefully the frame advantages wont change). But if anything, this is the main move that we’re going to have to rely on for frame traps/counter hit set ups from all ranges assuming CH gets the shaft.

I’m neutral about EX RCF buff. If it is fast enough to be reliable fireball punisher from at least 3/4 of the screen, that’s a welcome change. Is also nice to be able to link cr.jab/cr.mp off of it on hit. But it doesn’t really do much for Vega.

U2 nerf was absolutely unnecessary (hopefully it’s not that much slower). I’m assuming they didn’t change U1 at all either… kinda blows.

At least FBA didn’t get a damage nerf like it was said. Though cr.mp getting nerfed sucks just as much.

Capcom naturally didn’t address any one of Vega’s main problems. He still has no reliable quick hit confirm off of a low move. I was hoping they would make cr.lk +4 on hit seeing as how they were tampering with the frames of all the other characters. No reliable AA either… sigh Vega AE is either going to be pretty much on the same tier as Super Vega or worse. It’s unfortunate. First Cammy gets raped hard, now Vega…

Not at all. It’s actually THAT useful/good (though not broke). Just watch the match between Makoto against Tokido at last years SBO. Such mastery of Vega’s use of CH… he was really in the zone. Didn’t miss a thing while keeping Tokido on edge throughout the entire match. Definitely encourage anyone who has yet to see it to watch it.

40

No need to exaggerate

Cosmic Heel is the furthest thing from your only frame trap and throw mixup. C. mk and mixup with close fierce is obviously supposed to serve that purpose now. Right now they have the same start up, and obviously you might as well go for close fierce. hitting low is less of a dividend when you have a way meatier and versatile move in close fierce, imo, plus it is very very safe in terms of where you are after.

Now mixing the two up is a good idea, and c. mk is obviously a different poke with regard to sniping people. With Ryu shoto c. mk nerfed and a start up buff here, what’s the problem?

As for ultra 2, well, you already could safe jump it easily. I suppose that Ultra 2 having a longer start up means less cosmic heel combos, which does kinda suck. I think that a start up that slow may also mean no more cross up auto correct. That’s a pretty big nerf on that move, at least how I use it, and that sucks.

Also I think the reason for nerfing cosmic heel recovery is cause the option select is too gdlk. I never take damage after ppl block a cosmic heel. It’s Vega’s mixup with that option select in mind, otherwise you are totally safe.

I also find it strange that they’re saying vega’s ground game is better when he has received more nerfs than buffs cause I don’t think EX RCF is gonna weigh in that much. It’ll be a pain in a lot of matches and hopefully will stand a chance countering fireballs so another buff that probably won’t be too shabby in the long run. Now when you do it people can still jump over… the reward is really high but the risk is absurd. now it’s tighter, i think that’s a great move.

Wait, I actually just looked at the post on the home page and it says less recovery on EX RCF??? So all around it’s a way better move? They imply that it’s faster start up as it combos from c. mp so that’s good too… That would mean that you would be like +4 after an EX RCF? That’s a great buff… very versatile move, you have frame trap with c. mp, chip damage, push to corner, AND better frame advantage for block! FADC is not made easier i would think but that’s ok. vega can really pin people down with kara throw mixups there, easy…

I am pleased. I guess the Izuna nerf, invincible ST, forward dash buff and backdash nerf (is that really a nerf? idk) were all false. And supposedly CH was buffed, not nerfed. I guess those were AE tests but none of which proved succesful. I am glad, Vega sounds pretty awesome in this game, I’m looking forward to messing around with the new EX RCF and c. mk.

EDIT: Haha! apparently capcom thinks the same way i do, that having no reliable AA should be a challenge. I like mixing up AA’s anyway. i still have loads of fun playing vega and i’m sticking with him for sure.