In other news…
Makoto looks really rusty lol
So that’s how Capcom wants us to use Vega?
Hold back and use cr.mp more? with a hint of cr.mk for flavor. No wonder he lost. Fuck that, might as well use balrog or chun, they are way better at that.
It says if you use it up close it’ll be thrown not a well spaced one.
took the words out of my mouth.
In other words: learn how to space.
in onther words with no 3 frame cr.lk or lp you cant do anything but hope that the opponent doesnt push cr.lp and start an offense. you better hope he tries to reset by grabbing. Yeah, spacing doesn’t do any good, when the spacing gets you nowhere.
congrats you spaced it right, now you have to sit there and accept the oncoming barrage.
Completely agree ^^
Were you mixing up kara throws with CH? If so, I don’t know what else to say. I’d have to see your matches to know why it worked when it did and didn’t work when it didn’t.
But I do say that it is nowhere close to being overrated and/or risky. You just need to have knowledge and practice of how to “blend” the move into your play style. It’s a tried and true tactic that was viable in Vanilla back when Japan realized it’s potency. I remember in an interview (can’t remember which one though), Daigo said Balrog’s (Vega) potential was just being realized (this was late into Vanilla’s release) and it was around the time Vega’s CH was just beginning to be effectively exploited as a frame trap/crouch tech bait (thanks to Makoto, Cat-K Arai etc.).
I’m tired of linking vids so if you’re really interested, let me know and I’ll PM it to you or something.
And I don’t think a nerfed CH means Vega is going to suck in AE. It just means he’s nerfed/not as strong in AE.
Also, uploading the matches against Sabin would be great.
Anyway, last night I went in training mode to test out which range Vega is vulnerable to Giefs reversal Ultra when he blocks CH. I managed to jump out of reversal Ultra after a blocked CH when I used CH just outside of Giefs cr.short range (no animation overlap).
But out of curiosity, doesn’t Gief’s reversal Ultra punish anything that is left at 0 frame advantage/disadvantage on block? Similar to how Ibuki’s/Guys reversal grab Ultras punish anything left at -1 when the start up is listed as “1+1” on SRK wiki frame data (i.e. two frames).
If that is the case, then Vega hits on the third active frame of CH when used just outside Giefs cr.short range (leaving him in +1 in Super and -2 in AE). If not, then he hits on the second active frame (leaving him at 0 in Super/-3 in AE).
Hopefully it’s the former that’s true since that’s optimum range to use CH at.
you’re pointless! CH is the best vega move, u just dunno how to use it properly so u’re trying to say that it’s overrated… u had really bad matches against daigo cuz u never used CH…shut up your mouth and learn how to play vega!
Um… I can’t tell if you’re joking or serious but I’m going to assume you’re serious so…
Jozhear has a great Vega and I doubt you’re in any position to criticize him on how he uses his character. So drop the hate.
LOL@ random nobody talking shit
it’s not hate man, it’s just he wants to justify something unjustifiable as a kind of excuse or what else…look at the japanese vegas and look how much they abuse of CH…i don’t think they are crazy!
So Makoto glad to see u finally joined in on the discussion XD
He has a point. The strengths of CH was demonstrated in many videos of japanese players and theory/frame data has already been discussed here. Then he proceeded to demonstrate he had no idea how to use CH in those daigo matches etc and yet he was still arguing against it.
As much as i hate to say it Rokuwa has a point. you cant justify that nerf.
You guys want to know how the nerf is going to be in AE? Play a character with a 3 frame cr.lk. Do Cosmic Heel. Make sure its a yellow connection. YOu have to block and accept the rape.
Right,
Yeah, kara throws. of course man!
second: It was crazy, I dunno. It seemed like a lot of instances where I’d try to space the CH for post-block frame trap he would always, always crouch under it. again i mentioned earlier the only exception is sagat. he was really struggling with him, couldn’t crouch it from that distance.
as far as getting throws on sabin, gah i dunno it must be him man! i just can’t crack his shell, at times i do i can usually get some good stuff going but a lot of times i would just end up shutting him down in the corner with pokes. Always tech or cosmic heel block. He wasn’t as good against overheads though, unless playing bison. ex PC every time.
The score was 11-8 for me,
I did 2-0 vs Sagat
0-3 vs Bison
2-1 iirc vs Cammy
4-2 vs Fei
2-1 vs Rose
1-1 vs Adon
lol, I was gunna upload the matches but I started playing a bunch today… i forgot it overlaps them. i’ll check how much there are now and actually REMEMBER to save them. sorry guys. i’ll get at him again soon. he has gdlk friends who play too.
edit: alright rukouwa, fair enough. anything to actually contribute?
LoL, Bangmango. Always gotta chime in. again, something to actually help enlighten me? or just some ‘criticism’.
the least i can do is get ready for the new edition. i’ve always prefered using st. lk combos or c. mk combos and saving my meter for strictly those over cosmic heel. still the same mixup, only i’m in better places when ppl block c. mk’s and st. lk’s. the pace of my game is usually faster for that reason. THAT’s why i usually land so many karas. not sabin though.
Yeah, Arturo has gdlk defense. I could only imagine how hard it can be to open up someone of his caliber.
Though, no doubt AE Vega will be right up your alley considering it will definitely compliment your play style well. Hopefully [assuming I stick with Vega, which I probably will], I can adapt to the new Vega as well.
I’m def sticking with Vega
he’s a good enough char to win with, like Joz and Pedo have said I don’t really business with CH outside of punishes/frame traps (pretty much outside of the distance where its + on block) so the new changes won’t be a gamebreaker
still hoping for invincible EX ST though.
CH having at the very least 0 frame advantage and no nerf to start up is all I ask since its pretty much confirmed CH is getting a dumb nerf.
My greatest mind game against a majority of the cast is CH and karathrow set ups. I’ve gotten good enough at it to win money matches. One of the reasons why I like Makoto’s style is because he does similar things to me. He knows when to do CH and when to do kara throw. Of course I"m not telepathic like him but still… CH was not the largest portion of my game but its one of my deadliest and my only threating move against Ryu’s in Vanilla. But CH is what made Vega fun in the respect that you don’t just walk back and forth in a linear fashion. You can have options to move up like Ken’s fwd MK.
Also Joz. Right now, Gief can’t U1 Vega at tip point of CH because Vega can dash back before it activates. I repeat myself again from past posts: CH on tip against Gief is more than a viable option. Just use it carefully and sparingly. CH can also beat lariats at a slightly closer range. But with 0 frame advantage in AE…You can bet its a super dumb game of running and poking and OMFG he grabbed my poke. It already kinda is but with CH gone…it DEFINATELY is a dumb game.
And is no one extremely bothered that Vega is becoming stiffer? Capcom is giving Vega more reason to just walk, poke and charge. You can’t do many jumps, you can’t spam wall dive, and you don’t really have super high damage combos. And from the limited combos you won’t likely land a jumping normal that corresponds to the highest damage possible. And Vega doesn’t have the fast walk speed FYI. That goes to Gouki I believe. Atleast thats what it was for Vanilla. And I still know Vega is not the fastest walker in SSFIV