But who isnt going to have this minus the walkspeed in AE?
A “good” character in SSF4 has this already (part from walkspeed, maybe). And a bunch of them also has really strong anti airs, aren’t heavily meter dependent for great damage or untechable knockdown, have invul frames and ultras that are actually useful.
I wouldn’t agree that everyone has normals on par with Vega’s.
I also wouldn’t call him meter dependent for good damage.
And this isn’t even considering air footsies, on top of his solid ground game.
I guess my point is: You have everything you need to win. I don’t think Vega has a Cammy-Sim type of matchup to worry about so I don’t think there’s any reason to drop Vega beyond:“Too hard for me bleh i’ll go use a character with dp”
But this is me, and j’aime me some Vega
The only character I felt that was really retarded to fight was Abel with U2.
He does have everything that you said more or less. However not having an adequate super or ultra is really a downfall, not to mention his below average AA, low stun output, below average stun capacity, poor defense (losing claw/mask plus no I frames), and perfect execution for his 1 frame BnBs are huge problems that alot of characters don’t have. His forward dash needs to be faster, and having CH nerfed was huge. His mixup options weren’t even that great but they were adequate especially with CH… which has been pretty much deleted…
He only needed so little to be a solid character in my opinion.
-
usable ultra
-
Fix CH and forward dash
I still can’t believe that we got a stupid ex RCF buff in place of CH. Well at least Ibuki got some significant buffs.
Vega sounds great on paper, but in practice his flaws are often overwhelming. He’s a solid character at an intermediate level when you’re playing random people online, but against expert competition, it’s really an uphill battle.
Every time I start feeling confident with Vega, like I know what I’m doing and have all the tools I need, I’ll run into some player that puts me in my place. Today it was Ed Ma. I started out strong, got a couple games off him… but then he started putting the pressure on and exploiting Vega’s weaknesses and it was a slaughter. I could spend a whole round poking and zoning away most of his life, and all he would have to do is get in once and it’s all gone.
I like Vega, I love playing as him, but I’ve stopped deluding myself that he has everything he needs at a high level of play. There’s a reason almost no one gets far with him in tournaments.
LOL!!!
you poor poor thing you.
right now he’s got everything he needs to do well in high level play.dont know about his ae version though.
@Jaiyiorck ix
Absolutely, Vega has what he needs to win, I ain’t arguing about this. Had he been a hopeless case, I wouldn’t be playing him. I just feel that other chars also have what they need to win - and more. So yes, I still feel like i can bitch about Vega every once in a while… Or rather, get to bitch about my opponents character (Honda is fucking broken, seriously). I’ll probably still play him in AE, though, since learning another character requires too much effort.
I know what you mean Deuy, but when that happens to me I take a much more different approach to it.
I get my ass whooped by good/solid players very often but I don’t take it as ‘‘ahh Vega why’s your ultra suck, why don’t you have a good anti-air, why’s your dp not a dp’’
It’s more of a ‘‘damnit J why didn’t you block that, why didn’t you tech that throw, why didn’t you see that coming’’
I feel when I lose I lose because of what, I the player didn’t do, rather than what the character ‘‘couldn’t’’ do. Because we all know what we’re getting with Vega, and with that come some strengths and some weaknesses. It’s up to me to maximize those strengths, and minimize the opponent’s.
I dunno you guys, I have hope lol maybe i’m crazy
Oh and yeah fuck Honda.
Yeah true enough, I know when I lose it’s my faults as a player for the most part. I expect to get beaten when I run into great players or pros, but it’s still clear to see how disadvantaged you can be when they have nothing to fear applying pressure. It forces you to play perfectly and guess right all the time, and the odds are never in your favor.
I don’t beat myself up for missing 1 frame links and and not predicting every jump in, but alot of times thats the difference between a win or loss with Vega. In AE I heard that when your mask falls off there’s another mask underneath and it has laser beams.
Fuck Honda.
lol there are loads of chars that don’t have this but are still top tier.
Vega has everything he needs to win in Super. He may not be a great character but he’s just barely tournament viable.
I have to wait and see what happens with him in AE. I’m assuming there’s going to be more changes to him than what was told in the blog (hopefully positive changes). The main difference between Vega in Super and AE is that he’s not going to have that many effective options to open his opponents up from mid to close range. We most likely are going to fall back on using cr.mk in frame traps now (which can be used just as effectively). However, without meter, it’s going to be hard to maximize on the damage should we catch a counter hit. That’s the downside, in comparison to CH.
Another difference is that he’s going to be very meter reliant in many situations to really be an effective character. Effective meter management + match up knowledge is going to be of paramount importance in order for Vega to win/compete. More so than it is in Super. To capitalize on his BnB, frame traps, and punishes (to name a few), meter is going to be necessary.
On the positive note: CH may be nerfed, but I don’t think it will be completely useless. It will still have it’s use in footsies and can still be used as a frame trap like it is now in some match ups (e.g. Abel; pretty much against characters with no 3 frame punishes).
Sigh No matter how much I say I want to drop Vega, he’s still my best character (offline, not online lmao). Seeing as how I’ve put in countless hours of training into the character ever since Vanilla, dropping him just seems stupid at this point. Probably will be sticking with him in AE as well, regardless of how he ends up (if I stuck with him in Vanilla, I have no reason to drop him now). I’ll definitely/easily find a way to make use of his new tools.
… besides, I’ve got nothing to worry about. Handsome fighters never lose battles.
Peace.
Yeah, I know, the last “and” was supposed to be an “and/or”, but I guess I forgot the /or-part.
Nevermind!
CH may not end up being so bad in AE as I had initially thought.
It’s true that it has more recovery frames on block, and assuming it has the same amount of active frames (5 frames), we can still use it to blow up OS techs and in frame traps (to a certain extent). Since the translated blog said that we’re left at “even” when perfectly spaced (I’m assuming we’re left at 0 frame advantage when CH connects on the last active frame), all that means is we lose the frame advantage (and frame traps) that come from a blocked [spaced] CH (obviously). Now, we can just late crouch tech when CH is blocked during the later half of it’s active frames (i.e. when we’re left at -2 or less). Similarly to how we late crouch tech when CH is used point blank now in Super (and Vanilla).
Here’s the thing…
On paper/theory is sounds like a huge nerf for CH to have longer recovery. We can’t just walk up CH people who try to throw/tech what they think is gonna be a kara throw. However, right now, CH is at it’s most effective when used at kara throw range (duh!). In Super, when used at kara throw range, CH does not hit on the first frame (not sure which frame it hits on, probably the second or third active frame, but not the first). That’s when it hit me.
When I sat down and actually thought about it, I realized that it will still be effective in practice! Every player (regardless of how good they are) goes for crouch tech when Vega is in or close to kara throw range when they think a kara throw is coming (after playing Vega for so long, I know this is true). Probably due to having the fastest walk speed in the game. Using this to our advantage, we can still drop block strings and dance around mid range to trick opponents to crouch tech, and punish with CH accordingly. If blocked, CH will or will not be punishable, depending on the spacing. So long as we are mindful of our range when we use it, we’ll be fine. No one is safe from Vega at mid range!
The only match ups that I feel that CH wont be effective against for the means stated above are match ups like Gief, T.Hawk, Hakan (grapplers essentially).
Long story short: we will lose the frame traps that come from a blocked [spaced] CH but we can still use it for certain frame traps (e.g. far st.lk > CH) and as an overall tool to blow up OS techs so long as it’s used mid range/kara throw range (when it’s most effective/safe). We just have to make sure we get CH to connect on the third or later frames (which should be very doable when in mid/kara throw range).
I feel this is what the developers had in mind with the nerf. This nerf only emphasizes Vega’s potency mid range. CH will obviously not be as strong, but will still be strong nonetheless. Of course, this is all just theory fighter but I feel this will be the case.
With that said, I welcome AE Vega with open arms.
that is exactly what i said in my post kouryuu but without allowing people to say tl;dr
good stuff. I never really used the post-CH frame traps anyway
If anyone with a masters in theory fighter could provide data about the CH and it’s frames and hitboxes, and tell us which frame is active when I hit an opponent with CH from kara throw range, I’d appreciate it.
I was fairly certain that CH hits first frame from kara throw range… Regardless though, the way I used CH as a wakeup tool for frame trapping and frame trapping in general is now over, and I did it well as Qbanace can tell you.
Besides even if we hit on lets say the third frame which leaves us at -2 on block, if the opponent throws out an OS tech for lk (which most characters can probably just combo out of for alot of damage if it hits) which is probably going to be the most likely choice it shuts down all of our options except for block/back dash, or back flips (we can’t even jump out), which means we are forced to play defense which I don’t like to do, especially as Vega. At -1 grab beats all 4 frame moves which is why grab was soo good after a blocked CH from up close, and if they grabbed then you would just tech. Likewise Vega needed to be at +2 or +3 to get an effective frame trap incase they grabbed which means CH needed to hit at frame 4 or 5.
The CH nerf is that bad. Being negative that close only spells out trouble for Vega.
I’ll test out which frame Cosmic Heel hits when exactly at kara throw range later today with a little testing so I don’t give you guys false information. Regardless, that is irrelevant since you don’t have to use CH exactly at kara throw range since players OS crouch tech even when you aren’t in range for a throw (because of Vega’s walk speed). We can space a cr.lk (walk back for a split second to space CH) and then use CH and still catch a crouch tech. It’s better in practice. Trust me. We also have a faster cr.mk which we can now use against people who mash crouch techs as well. So it’s all good.
As for being -2, that’s perfect. Vega should go for a late OS crouch tech and he’ll cover both reversal and throws. If the opponent mashes cr.lk (crouch tech), jabs, etc. we will still block if we practice the timing of your late crouch tech properly. And don’t forget, we can still back dash as well. So it’s not that bad.
This sounds correct. I still want to complain though lol.
The cr mk buff and backdash fix are very good though, so I won’t deny that. As a matter of fact it would enhance my playstyle quite well in many ways like the cr mk counter hit, hit confirm for cr mk x cr mp x ex FBA. Off of a jump it would be easier to connect from hitting higher up into a strong combo.
I want real compensation for that CH nerf though. Give me any one of these and I’ll be happy: 18 frame forward dash, a real ultra, I frames for Ex ST, or my FBA feint!
The CH nerf also takes away mixups on block like neutral jump or jb hp. Whatever, I’m over it.
One thing I think is awesome is cr mk being a safe blockstring after a jump in. I hate getting mashed out of that.
Alex- don’t you think cr mk change will make it harder to hit confirm cr mk>cr mp>ex fba? Less frames on the mk means less charge time for already strict timing on that.