It was for comparisons sake of another character that has tools but no crossup and gets by perfectly fine.
Sure his health is a tad higher, but stamina is a moot point when skills and tools come into question, I mean, look at Seth.
Vega, while it takes a while to learn your spacing perfecly. His normals in themselves are excellent tools that can poke the hell out of your opponent and annoy them aswell as win you matches pretty simply. It just requires a bit more thanking than the average bear with a crossup say…like Bison?
With all of this along with his mixups, you honestly don’t need a crossup if you can mixup and frame trap. It’s all about that untechable knockdown and what you do next, his mixup options and frame traps are excellent tools that don’t warrant a crossup.
That’s just how I see it anyway.
waits for uber long post from about 285634895 people saying “YOU’RE WRONG!”
Well yeah, granted. Or just reset Cosmic heel to how it was so people stop complaining? XD
Though if you’re setting it up right anyway, your opponent kinda shouldn’t be blocking. You want to be spaced right so you’re either smacking them in the face with it or you’re landing smack bang in front of them.
On block, you could go into throws or nj, but you can still do the same and still piss them off with a good ol’ kara throw or nj landing infront.
Im sorry. I did not intend to leave you out. But as a show of good will.
@Vegama
Yeah, im dropping claw. I dont think the work with put into him will be worth the effort. So i started using Sagat, and when AE drops im picking up Yang to. Ill still use him in AE, but he isnt going to be my main.
Yeah, im dropping claw. I dont think the work with put into him will be worth the effort. So i started using Sagat, and when AE drops im picking up Yang to. Ill still use him in AE, but he isnt going to be my main.
Tatsu from what I remember lost to AndyOCR in losers I believe. Can’t remember who he lost to in winners. I think it was a Honda player. Not sure though.
Arlieth lost to Hugo101 in winners and a Rufus player in losers. I didn’t catch the Rufus players name nor did I see the match. We just talked about it (I was busy watching Sako play Marn in casuals lol).
I respect your opinion, and that’s why I appreciate your input. What baffles me is that there is a good portion of the cast that fit similar criteria, great normals etc, but also have a cross up. My main problem is that Vega is the only character that can have his normals so negatively altered, (losing his claw), yet for some reason he is deemed good enough without one.
In short, a crossup doesn’t fit Vega’s playstyle. He is not supposed to be a close-range rushdown character and Capcom has gone to lengths to prevent that. Few reliable blockstrings, unchainable jabs and shorts, no crossup etc.
Also, as suck-ass as they are, you can consider walldive and ex shc his crossups.
And his play style isnt about staying as far as way as possible pushing cr.mp when someone walks forward trying to poke someone to death. Vega needs to put some nasty pressure to win. You establish that right during footsies. its like trying to lame out Honda. If you won by laming it out you got lucky.
Yeah you don’t have the tools to play 100% keepaway like Dhalsim. You do have to apply pressure, but in a different way than the conventional rushdown.
One of the most interesting things to me about Vega is that he’s one of the rare few characters that is really dangerous at mid-range. Outside of most character’s ideal footsie range, but not far enough away to be a keep-away or turtle character. I like that about his design and moveset, although I think Capcom fell a little short from giving him everything he needed.
I don’t get why CH is nerfed for this reason: CH on block already establishes a double mind game from pretty much all ranges. SRK or anything invincible is already a viable reversal meaning Vega must block in order to avoid it. According to the article in page 1, the backdash is now considered to be arial within sometime of the 3rd frame. Invinciblity doesn’t change but arial grabs can now grab him. So after CH against certain characters are now unsafe making Vega have to think harder for another caste of matchups. In otherwords, its fair in the sense that everyone has a 50/50 reversal on Vega after CH “theoretically.” But heres the thing: His match ups are already 5/5 for a good amount of ppl and only 2 6/4 in his favor and still alot of 4/6 against him. So really, whats the point of that nerf? Its like saying (in extreme):Garbage tier needs nerfing but God tiers need more buffing. Also note, this is assuming you hit anywhere nearer than the tip of CH. Even then, the frame advantage will be 0 meaning its anybody’s game.
Changing EX RCF into a even faster move is not necessary. EX RCF just makes people think twice before throwing out mid range fireballs for spacing and its already safe to chip when it hits on block or clean. Besides, no one throws out fireballs from that range (except that crazy ass Daigo with all his godly spacing skills). The fact that EX will then be comboable is not really impressive either. The damage will not change. So, why do EX when you can save and add more meter with H RCF?
Regarding the change with the cr. MK being 6 frames, if they retained the hitstun then Vega will have his cr.MK x2 combo again which is kinda cool. If I remember correctly you can even do it on Vanilla. But I never really used it regularly but one of the first few things when I did when I first played SFIV is test that combo out.
Regarding the damage nerfs on his MK/MP. Vega is already a character that struggles to deal big damage. If you notice, on even matches where both players know what they are doing, Vega hardly (if ever) lands damage over 240. Vega already relies on mostly small feats to win the fight. Why make it even harder? His damage in his cr. MP already is nerfed after the claw is removed so in addition to losing his base damage, he also loses an extra set of damage from a missing claw.
Cosmic Heel got nerfed because it juggles into so much damage for no meter. It’s already a bad move to throw out randomly (on block, it’s the equivalent of the opponent getting inside; if your first thought is to continue attacking, your opponent just doesn’t know), so Capcom is just making it obvious now. If you space it right, you’ll get the same -1 on block if you really want it.
Also, wtf Vega struggles to deal big damage? Vega poke pressure, bad super and limited use for FADC mean he always has meter; Vega with meter can hit confirm into 25% of your life; Vega without meter can whiff punish into 25% of your life; ST juggles do 170-210 dmg depending on which follow up you choose. You can’t just sit there and block when he can kara-throw/overhead to open up your defenses, so chances are you’re going to land something into ST/EX FBA.
The damage nerfs on low strong/forward are a given, considering low forward is getting faster and low strong is already so good.
ST only juggles on 1 hit plus it loses to just about anything except grabs. The only real time that someone should eat a ST in the air is if the Vega player predicted a jump at a VERY early time. In otherwords, as long as you keep the pressure on Vega he has nothing against a rush down. He can’t even do a ultra after it so why bitch at us? ps: ST juggles do 120 damage.
Vega doesn’t really build meter super fast firstly and true his hitconfirm with normals to EX. BHC is ez but he must have meter. ST can combo but if you notice its very limited. Crouchers (xcept large ppl ie. Gief) will have ST whiff in a combo. cr. MP->ST only works if you are litterally humping eachother. CH as you said, is already a move that is risky, then why make it riskier when its no where near broken?
Vega doing high damage without meter? Ryu’s most basic combo: j. FP–>st. FP–>HP SRK=320 damage. Its common to see it too because j. FP has a good angle that can confuse people with cross-up/fake cross-up. Vega’s is j. FP–>cr. MK–>ST which does 298 damage. His j. FP is not as good since his jump-ins have little to no cross up value meaning its not much of a fake. It can easily be hit out of and generally not much chance to hit.
