I disagree, the startup on those moves is too much so you’ll get crumpled by an early release. Armor break moves range from about 16-2x frames startup and the lvl 2 focus is usually around 18 drames startup plus release. Imo that just bordering top human reaction and moslty anticipation.
Zonk works so well because of the lack of a hurtbox on the upper body. Plus being a release instead of a motion.
All those moves you listed work amazingly if you throw them out to keep pressure or expect the opponent to focus, since they’re not really punishable (minus mash and the fastest moves).
Ummm. Dan’s EX Dankick = 8F startup and only -3F on block so there is that. Guy’s EX Hozanto is only 10F startup. Gen’s hands are 3-5F startup and bufferable. Sakura’s LK Tatsu is bufferable from crMK and she also has HK and EX tatsu which is only 12F startup and safe on block and tends to avoid moves due to height. Viper’s MP TK is 14F startup and safe on block and can be used from buffers, plus the LP version while slightly lower can low profile many attacks pretty well. Makoto’s EX Hayate is 13F startup and goes full screen nearly instantly and is only -4F.
Also there is Gouken’s LP Rush Punc (9F startup -4F on block) Rose’s LP and EX Soul Spiral are just as good as Ruffian. Sagat’s EX Tiger Knee is only 7F startup and only -1F on block and goes very far very fast.
Like I said, there are plenty of options as good or better than Cody’s zonk or MK Ruffian as on reaction armor break moves.
Though i correct myself and agree that gen hands is probably the best focus breaker, specially when you consider the afterwards reward if you spend meter. Had forgotten/didn’t know they were armor breaking and not just working like that due to being a multhitting move.
I dunno, zonk is the only one that is immune to being stuffed during the startup by a focus attack. The other ones carry a huge risk if you’re even a tad bit too slow.
But then it means the opponent is just bad for doing a focus attack out of range or that you’re hugely antecipating it.
Maybe we have different views on what makes a move good vs focus. You can’t argue how good sakura’s tatsu, rose’s spiral, dankicks and grounded jaguars are and specially since they break armor. They blowup a lot of focus fishing.
Me however i personally despise focus attacks and think it’s the scrubbiest of tactics. So much that i missed zonk a lot when i played e. ryu for a while and struggled against fuckers who did only that. Doing a reactionary cr.mp xx tatsu and backdashing (if they hold a lvl 3) was very fucking hard and doing a lk axe kick is simply theoryland. Zonk though is easy and pretty much nullifies focus fishing, you can react to an absorbed normal with quick recovery and still release it to punish the opponent.
Playing yang, focus are not an issue and a terrible idea in general, but that won’t be the case anymore. Anyway i digress.
Let’s not forget: Zonk only has 3F active and 26F recovery it isn’t unheard of for the opponent to backdash and have their invincibility frames cover the active frames of Zonk and leave them enough time to still punish you. Many of the other moves either have enough active frames that you can’t entirely avoid them via backdash invincibility OR recover fast enough that no one can punish them on whiff if they backdashed the active frames.
I dunno why some of you guys are talking like because red focus is in the game that players will use it suddenly in matches or situations where they normally wouldn’t in most cases. Players aren’t going to suddenly start using red focuses against Honda because it’s there.
And the reality is, if zonk and MK Ruffian were godlike tools for keeping people from focusing (which they aren’t), players wouldn’t use red focus much versus Cody.
The only thing red focus is really going to affect is the zoning game IMO. Red focus will help Cody in a few matches (Sim, Guile, Akuma, Sagat), and hurt him in matches like Gief, Hakan, etc… YAY FOR OILED HAKAN WITH RED FOCUS!
And I think the double ultra thing is beyond stupid, and I wouldn’t use it to begin with. There is really no match up where I feel I need to use or have both ultras on hand…maybe E. Honda at most.
Some character will benefit from having both ultra’s available, most don’t. Cody is one of the characters that isn’t going to benefit alot if at all from this change.
Red focus will cost bar, probably 2 meters so it won’t be thrown out recklessly anyway. Think it will be best used if you have a solid read on people performing a certain blockstring or just reacting/predicting certain multihitting moves. Can’t be used against reversals either. Won’t be used as a footsie tool at all. Vortex like those of Akuma, Ibuki and Cammy won’t change, they can just react to it and perform the proper answer.
Seems pretty situational in its use…but who knows.
Actually think Cody his mk, ruffian and zonk are terrible for breaking focus. I get crumpled in the startup of these moves or they whiff all the time.
If the delayed wakeup is still in the works, i hope they scrap it.
Also would still like to see dp fadc only available on hit.
Was looking up SF4 music and came across the old Super trailer for Cody/Guy/Adon/Deejay/Juri
Check out how short (but fast) Cody’s forward dash was during development. Also even MORE noticeable: HIS SLIDE ACTUALLY MOVED. It looks like his slide went almost 50% farther at one point. I find it amusing that even in the TRAILER they couldn’t make his knife look good. FJ HP - sMP then sHP WHIFFS. You don’t show a move blatantly whiffing entirely at a range it looks like it should hit IN THE TRAILER lol.
Red focus will cost bar, probably 2 meters so it won’t be thrown out recklessly anyway.
Think it will be best used if you have a solid read on people performing a certain blockstring or just reacting/predicting certain multihitting moves.[/spoiler]
Yes
Cody’s cr lk xx Criminal Upper isn’t a blockstring
Red Focus is a huge counter to this now >.<
If I can get a ride I might try to go to the Capcom Cup one on dec. 14th otherwise no. That said, while I understand a lot of the mechanics and such of the game I’m not a particularly strong player.
If I make it to the location test, #1 Request: V-ism dodge :3
#2 make crack kick hit crouching opponents (in the history of SF AFAIK Cody’s is the only hop kick that can’t hit crouching opponents)
#3 Faster walk speed (unless they buffed it already)
#4 Faster badstone/fake badstone (especially given the delayed wakeup stuff weakening his already poor offense outside of the corner or a knockdown)
Not sure why we never came up with this before - I think I like that better than making crack kick airborne.
I think my number one request has changed since all the suggestions were originally compiled - it’s now fixing EX ruffian so that you can react to projectiles with it. When you compare it to similar EX moves it’s pretty damn low on the tier list
@GroundedSF It’s definitely more important that the move is airborne. ATM, you can’t do shit about someone mashing throw, no string to defeat that except for a finely timed double jab. That’s not what the character should be, he should have a way to make his opponents fear the frametraps.
As cody doesn’t have a low he can link from and his walkspeed isn’t good his throw game isn’t really anything scary tbh.
An airborne crack kick seems to be the perfect remedy for people mashing stand throw, also having a great tool for approach and reenforcing his frametraps.
Going to throw it out here again but a better backdash/walkspeed, incincibility frames on ex CU from startup and faster projectile invincibility on start with ex ruffian would make him complete. The red focus and delayed wakeup might alleviate his horrendous defensive options, but that is something everyone will have now…
