Only had time to test Ryu, Ken, Yun, and Abel for the whiffing I mentioned before. Whiffs on Ryu and Ken. Works on Yun and Abel. Odd. I even tried both Omega and Ultra versions of Ryu, and it still whiffs. They must’ve changed something with Makoto.
Interesting. Anyone test if Ex.fukiage hit box is reverted to 2012 yet. I remember when everyone was hypothesizing about the crazy cross under shenanigans.
Edit: Was just able to hit Ex.fukiage on grounded charcter while facing the opposite direction. Confirmed?
Sorry to skip the Saikyo Dojo forum to post directly here right after making an account.
If you experiment with EX Fukiage a bit, you’ll notice that they reduced the forward motion on it significantly, it’s almost non-existent now. Compare that to the Ultra version EX Fukiage, which will cover quite a bit of distance. My best guess is that without this forward motion, the hitbox is simply not getting close enough to certain character hurtboxes, causing the whiff. The bigger/wider the opponent, the easier EX Fukiage will land in Omega Mode. And to answer Vryu’s question, it does still launch outside of Tanden Renki.
Ex.oroshi grab invincible!?
Just finished a prolonged set with Omega Oni as Omega Makoto. Karakusa > st.HP > EX Fukiage landed consistently, with all the regular follow ups and mix ups that Makoto has in Ultra.
Really getting thrown for a loop about st.MP > EX Oroshi not working, bugs the hell out of me lol
After Karakusa EX Fuki will usualy connect on usual buttons
But for example, a far jHK > stHP > EX Fuki can whiff easily, and max range crMP / crLk > EX Fuki never connect
Okay so ive played kt yesterday for about 1.30 hours. Here are the changes ive noticed (most of them are known):
General:
- LP/MP/HP/EX headbutt are +3/4/5/4 on hit
- headbutt only combo from stHP
- stLK has now 4f startup (down from 5f)
- i could EASILY do fMP > stLP. So either fMP is now +4 on hit and i have godlike execution…or its +4 on hit AND stLP has 3f startup now (i couldnt fMP > stMP)
- stMP has less recovery AND less hitstun. Thats why stMP*2 still works but stMP > ex oroshi/stHP/etc dont
- ex fukiage connects grounded opponent almost only during hitstun. Most raw ex fuki whiffs
- tsurugi is shit. Lot more startup frame (she goes vertically then down). If done at the edge of the jump, she goes down directly. Cannot combo from it if done instant or before landing…
- target combo LK>MK knockdown and is not cancelable
- HP hayate seems to put you a bit closer ( i could MK karakusa after it (but should whiff if opponent walks backward)
- shikiri is 16f (like hayate cancel)
- ex shikiri should be ~2-3 frames when canceled early
- crMP has less recovery and is +6 on hit
During Tanden Renki:
- LP/MP/HP hayate does 1/2/3 hits and is as fast as ex hayate. HP hayate is at least -4 (punished by dudley ex upper)
- fukiage are invulnerable when she does the up punch. So LP version is invulnerable at once (i could even go through fireball with it). Mp/hp version arent invulnerable during the short dash
- fukiage has 0 juggle potential (fuki*2 whiffs)
- fukiage has a lot of recovery (fuki > dash > fuki (to test juggle potential)… opponent is down during the dash)
- her dash is invulnerable to mid/high attack (can dash through ryu solar plexus/dudley ex MGB/etc)
- she seems to be able to cancel the end of her dash
- her backdash is really short but really quick (almost no recovery). Spamming backdash is fun to see
- shikiri must be ~13 frames. Allowing stHP > shikiri > stHP/u1
Combo:
jHK > crMP > stHP > MP headbutt > stLK > LP hayate > super (4 bars) > stHP > headbutt > stLK > LP fuki > tsurugi
works.
Since you cannot cancel her special move (hayate, etc) with super when 2-3 ex…combos are limited (cannot crMP > hayate > super if 2-3 bars).
And her headbutt isnt super cancelable or fadcable either.
I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this but during Tanden Renk her HP Oroshi is airborne and beats out lows. Been surprising a good few people with it.
If Tsurugi is done with “TK” motion you can easly combo into whatever off it. If it’s done like IAT it recovers too slow to connect anything.
Yep, TK tsurugi can be combo’d easily. Strangely if you try TK EX.tsurugi nothing happens.
Toward throw range is back to pre-Ultra range, but it does 160 damage and 250 stun. I’m pretty sure LP Hayate is 0 on block during TR. s.FP xx HC > s.FP xx HC > s.MK xx MP Hayate works during TR.
I can’t get this to save my life, what am I doing wrong?
Ex shikiri (qcf KK) is cancelable on frame 1 or 2.
So just do:
stHP > ex shikiri > u2
The inputs Ace2aKing wrote are correct.
stHP ~ qcf KK ~ qcf KKK
Same input for canceling st.HP/st.MP into U1 with EX Shikiri, just replace kicks for punches.
st.HP/st.MP > qcf KK > qcf PPP
Plinked Tsurugi,st.HPxxEX shikirixxU2 works. Tsurugi is almost back to his 3rd strike version, but differently from there we cannot combo from a nj.Tsurugi. Oh, like in 3rd is a better A2A move in Omega.
Makoto seems weaker in omega or is it just me ?
The loss of converting damage off of an IAT is huge in my opinion. In addition to the loss of forward movement on EX Fukiage, the neutral game is back to AE2012 styles of footsies where you fish for counterhits buffered into Hayate then go for the Post Hayate Mix Up, except without IATs as a viable mix up option to beat crouch techs. Either that or you get a lucky jump in, which is always high risk/high reward (as is pretty much everything Makoto does, I suppose). EDIT: Also dashing, forward moving normals, etc. and all the inherent risks those have. I didn’t forget lol
Once inside, however, you get all of the same mix up options off of a successful Karakusa combo: air resets off of EX Fukiage, knockdown set ups, etc. Shikiri as a faster alternative for Hayate Canceling on block is great when going for tick Karakusas but that will only work so many times until the opponent gets wise. The combo potential on EX Shikiri though is just great, and we thought Makoto had great stun/damage output already. You just need a lot of meter to be able to do it.
People mentioned you can convert off of TK Tsurugi, but I’m not seeing it. I can do TK Tsurugis just fine but the hitstun on Tsurugi in general has been reduced so much that I still can’t convert a successful one into a full combo. Maybe I just suck. TK EX Tsurugi works just fine though, don’t remember who said it didn’t but it does.
My one gripe is that I rarely, if ever, find myself with enough meter to take advantage of EX Tanden Renki. She’s already such a meter dependent character that actually having meter to go into EX Tanden Renki is a rare occurrence. That being said, it could be just poor meter management skills on my part. Is anyone else dealing with this problem?
lol, seaslug was just saying the same thing last night on his stream when I asked him about her. I have to agree as well, I don’t like the axe kick change and the fact that I need to be in tenden reki to do some of the stuff that they should have allowed her out of it. why can’t she parry regularly like ryu?
Maybe it’s because I’m total butt at 3rd Strike, but I’m not actually finding Makoto’s parry in Tanden Renki that useful. Most people hit too many buttons for it to matter. Her parry doesn’t seem to leave her at any sort of frame advantage, at least any frame advantage I recognize. Instead I’ll just absorb the first hit then eat another mashed normal to the face as they continue their block string.
Any tips for utilizing this new tool in her arsenal more effectively?
EDIT: Oh, duh, you can parry multiple times in a row, like 3rd Strike.
Yea I agree, she’s entertaining to watch especially ex shiriki combos but overall she’s a weak character compared to some of the other omega characters and her previous versions. I switched over to omega chun… Solid character.
They should have just given her the ex cancel in ultra to make up for the ultra 2 nerf she only gets about 450 damage with 3bars and that ultra… Smh