You aren’t explaining to me anything I don’t already know. And it is clear from your examples that you don’t understand a thing I’m saying.
Even top level players don’t whiff punish some medium buttons consistently. Hell just watch Snake Eye’s vs Xian and watch how many times Xian whiffs c.MP with Gen. That button’s slower than Chun’s s.MP. You see top level players whiffing buttons unpunished often enough that says that when they do whiff punish a button they aren’t doing it on reaction, they are making a read.
Maybe with Yang or whoever you use against Chun the button you use doesn’t have the same restrictions I have on my buttons. But I guarantee you, you would not be able to reaction punish Chun’s s.MP with Akuma’s sweep when she is properly mixing up her buttons. I would put money on that.
Then again Yang’s c.MK ducks him fairly low so maybe you can press the c.MK button with more lenient timing than I can with Akuma. Maybe for Yang you have the luxury of not having to give a fuck what button she pressed because spacing exists for Yang where he can counter both buttons. I don’t play the character so I don’t know. But I play Akuma and I do have to care which button he is going to press.
It would be an extreme example if it was actually a good one. We are talking about a button being so fast you can’t react to it and you picked one of the slowest moves in the game as an example. That’s apples and oranges.
I mean apply the same math.
Hugo HP Clap: 24 frame start up, 4 active frames, 5 recovery, 32 total frames
Chun s.MP: 7 frame start up, 2 active frames, 10 recovery, 18 total frames
Under ideal conditions, to whiff punish Hugo’s clap with a 6 frame normal you need to press the button around frames 21-26. This means you have about 21 frames to react to the move and another 5 to actually press the button Aka even someone with absolutely awful reactions could probably do that.
To whiff punish Chun’s s.MP with a 6 frame normal you need to press the button around frames 7-12. Which means you need to already be pushing the button before most people can properly react to it.
This is of course assuming you are far enough back you won’t get tagged by the active frames of the move. Which if you are using Akuma’s sweep it has to be pressed after the active frames because his hurt box balloons to the size of the moon when you press the button. So if they are still in the active frames you will get counter hit.
So even using my math it pretty well explains your example. That’s why it was a bad example!
No it hasn’t. I understand your point even better than you understand it.
You know why I am using these numbers? Because it tells you what the fuck you have to do to actually counter a collection of buttons.
Is it really laggy on recovery? You can let it whiff and easily punish it.
Is it too fast to react to it on whiff? You have to use some other indicator like your opponent’s motion to try to punish it on whiff.
It is the same math as if I had to drive 60 miles to be at a meeting and I want to know how early I would have to leave. I can stop and say “ok, most highways have a speed limit of about 60-70 MPH. Therefore I should try to leave at least an hour early to make it on time.” I can also figure out from the numbers that if I have to drive 60 miles in a half hour that it would be impossible without speeding.
There are times when theory can explain things better than actually going into the lab.
Pretty sure she can only super off counter hit on c.MP. The move is neutral on hit I believe. Which is why mistaking it for s.MP is a problem because you usually get counter hit in the process.