Yang plays nothing like Yun? Does Ryu not play like Ken at least some of the time? They both use similar/identical normals and can play similar styles. Yun actually has a comparable normals/footsie game to Yang, its just rare that we see it because of ex lunge…
Also thanks to the stealth nerfs to decap’s charge time, Poison is easily the best of the USF4 chars.
That’s because there probably aren’t enough good Yang players around for you to notice.
About cr.mk/cr.MP I run into the best chun in America fairly often. If its a magic button, he must not know about it.
Then when I see footage of valmaster or any top Japanese chuns, they don’t use it either.
So while they might have good hitboxes, in real matches they don’t get used much at all aside from character specific situations. IMO she has other buttons that override them in usefulness in most matches
EDIT- so i went and watched a random 15:00 set with valmaster vs a bunch of different players to compare stand mp to cr.mk/cr.mp to see what would get used more. just looking a footsie situations, not counting block strings, combos or full screen whiffs when he’s just trying to show action. just the one button vs the 2. not counting stand fierce or sweep or far roundhouse
it was like 10-0 for stand mp until he fought a chun mirror followed by guile, then it drew a lot close than i thought it would be. final count ended up being 16/10. with 8 of those 10 pokes coming in 2 matches. its a character specific poke from what i can tell. cr.mp apparently goes under or trades with booms, and the most used chun buttons lose to lows, so he used them a lot in those matches
vivi uses cr.mk/cr.mp really well and I like toi’s use of both buttons in the US
just because you don’t see people using something doesn’t mean it’s not optimal.
With all that, why did they go through the trouble of nerfing all hitboxes for yang? Sad panda
cr.mk and cr.mp are core pokes in heavy footsie mu like guile
cr.mk beats his st.hk, so cr.mk buffer ex legs is very useful
cr.mp loses to st.hk but counter pokes guile´s f.hp and st.hp so you that´s why guile has to use st.hk to stop chun´s cr.mp
there are plenty examples of this scenario in many other mu.
besides cr.mk is a fine frame trap move (despite being 0 on block) because on CH is +6 meaning you can get another cr.mk into super or cr.lk bnb. The other important fact is cr.mk is a low so you cant use standing tech against this move when used as a frame trap.
most chun wont know or even care to use cr.mk just because it has a few pixels less range than her cr.lk but it deff has it uses and a very important tool specially at counter poking and AA.
other thing is that cr.mk is the other way to get dmg besides legs loops as you can link it from or into jabs and what not
AND the other thing is cr.mk is one of her best meaties. Meaty cr.mk makes viper´s hp TK whiff and we can get a full punish. Rog cant use heabutt either as it whiff.
the only move i really hate sometimes is cl.mp i would love her ST cl.mp instead tbh
or it might not be optimal as a poke in footsies and theres a reason it isnt being seen.
the discussion was about those buttons being used as pokes. when i talk about them not being used, im specifically reffering to them being used as mid range pokes. im not discussing their usefulness in blockstrings, as a meaty, in a combo or anything else
as a chun player, youre honestly telling me that crmp and crmk get pressed with the same frequency as her other buttons in footsies? keep in mind we arent discussing obscure situations
i do
but i do stuff most chun dont use so idk
I even use f.mk and i assure you most ppl dont even know she has a step kick move…
and for the most time im just an average scrub for srk standards anyways so yeah
edit. the point im trying to make is that cr.mp and cr.mk are good pokes and you need to use them in footsies and as a bonus those moves are used in other situations just fine.
other move ppl dont use other than AA is her cl.mk… but i wont go there as you dont want obscure stuff.
Who do you think is the best Chun in America…?
cr.mp is definitely under utilized by most chuns, but if you know you’re in a footsie battle, you need to use it. The whole reason you use it is to stop the other player from using something thats really good for them so that you can open up other options for Chun. I’d go as far to say that it has absolutely critical uses in every match.
cr.mp isnt used as much as st.mp in most matches. Doesnt change the fact that is useful.
However, when discussing Chun vs Dudley, cr.mp basically destroys everything that Dudley tries to do, so I actually use it as my main poke.
For cr.mk, that is more useful as a counter hit in most situations. if you whiff it next to the player, you buffer whatever you want and if they press anything its bigger damage. Also cr.mk was very useful in 2012 against Akuma to stop him from just throwing sweeps out randomly before chun had meter. Its damn near impossible to whiff punish cr.mk and it shuts down so much that any chun that doesnt use it needs to start now.
i keep reading the best US chun but no names or GT…
i hope is not brolylegs. And tbh nash is pretty much us best chun i guess
yeah nashfan. clear number 1 in the US
oh, double quoted. yeah went and watched a couple tourney sets of boi toi. same comparison i did with valmaster. final count was 29-4 thru 5 games
my point was that the button doesnt get used frequently enough for it to be a factor in the yang match. from what ive played, and everything ive seen, this is true
The frequency has nothing to do with how optimal it is though. Just because you dont see Chuns use it doesnt mean they CANT use it.
Your argument on frequency has zero relevance.
cr.mp beats yang far mp tho
but yeah
Was talking to amiyu today on top 10 characters in order, he thinks ken might end up better than evil ryu since. He thinks cammy may drop off from top 10 after a while .
Yun Fei Long Ibuki Adon Evil Ryu Ken Poison Viper Cammy
Heres nemos rankings
Yun Ibuki Poison
Fei Long Juri Ken
Evil Ryu Dudley Cammy Viper
He think ken is better due to him being more solid as in theres not much room to make errors in his play.
Acqua Top 5
Yun Ibuki Evil Ryu Fei Juri
it does because it means in real matches it doesnt get pressed. its a non factor. i can tell you about yang crouch mp or low hp which also have amazing hitboxes, but it means absolute shit because yang has no reason to press those buttons enough for chun to care. he has better further reaching buttons that lead to more damage or knockdowns. they are non factors
it doesnt matter if cr.mk counter pokes guile or cr.mp kills dudley or whatever because vs yang she wont be touching those buttons.
again, why would a yang player be pressing this button vs chun enough for her to care? another non factor
you guys are putting together this match based on hypothetical theories. im telling you in real matches from what ive played, and what gets used in real matches that yang doesnt care, and the top chun players dont care enough about those buttons for them to matter
you cant argue that a button used less than once per round is something i need to consider. idgaf if it has no hurtbox on it. if nobody uses it in the yang match or it only gets seen vs certain characters in some obscure situation, its a fucking non factor
People don’t do optimal shit with Blanka all the time, am I supposed to say that “what happens in real matches” outweighs what I know is optimal?
shrug
“I haven’t dealt with it, therefore it’s not a factor”.
That’s how I used to think in AE 2012 before I played vs an Oni player that used stomps in footsies.
Oh how wrong I was.
Yun has a hard time getting in.
It’s Toi if you absolutely want to know. He’s in New Orleans and I’m an hour away in Baton Rouge.
I’ve played both of them and I have to say Toi comes out better in the departments that matter. It’s no knock against Nashfan because I respect him as a player and he’s a cool dude in person. When I last played Nash though I was beating his Chun pretty consistently. In at least the Akuma match up Toi plays it way better.
Toi’s problem is he sometimes doesn’t play as well in tournament sets. But in money matches that’s another story. He’s beaten really good players like Snake Eyes in MMs. But even in tournaments he’s beaten players like Jayce the Ace, Chris King, and come close to beating players like Valle.
Maybe I’m biased, but that’s my personal opinion. Then again I’ll definitely cheer for Nash fan at majors because he is from our neighboring scene.
Those buttons are both useful and horribly underused by many Chun players. c.MK doesn’t have much range, but it is special bufferable which makes it a useful counter poke. c.MP is a good counter to the shoto c.MK which normally beats her s.MP.
They aren’t as easy to use, but they are still very usable.
Yeah, I also know for a fact that Chun back+mk is pretty useful as a footsie tool as well, but you don’t see a lot of them use it too often.
It’s true that even the players that are best with their character don’t always do optimal stuff. They may have better fundamentals/reads or know the rest of their characters tools well, but many not so great players are more varied in their approaches. Many players don’t use all of their characters tools simply because one tool may be more useful than the other in more situations, but you have to remember that every move has its uses.