jump back from midscreen, cammy’s dp hits you while you are both falling. cry
Gouken’s clsHK, crHP, crMK, far MK, far HP, and EX Tatsu cover a variety of ranges/positions very well. Because close HK is only 40 damage people really underrated it but as an AA button goes it’s one of the best as standing AAs go. It has a very high reaching hitbox, a decent hurtbox, 4F startup and 5F active on the anti air portion.
I still think though with no meter, you can jump on Gouken, he’s got dead spots. Still I agree he has a lot of buttons.
Or even worse, it’s the last 5 seconds of the last round at Evo and there’s probably only one scenario in the entire game that can tag you… (still, great read though)
sets bait on hook hey guys what are your opinions on onis place in the tier lists?? <3<3<3
while i agree he has godlike anti air normals, just having those isnt enough to make your character viable, hell just look at dhalsim. the buffs to other characters and the nerfs to his has only lowered his place in the tier list imo.
[quote=“Highlandfireball, post:1223, topic:169227”]
I still think though with no meter, you can jump on Gouken, he’s got dead spots. Still I agree he has a lot of buttons.
Or even worse, it’s the last 5 seconds of the last round at Evo and there’s probably only one scenario in the entire game that can tag you… (still, great read though)
[/quote]The scrubs on those comments. Anyone who complains about Bison the way they do are complete scrubs. Bit like the ones who complain about Dee Jay being broken on Yoga Flame.
Makoto and Juri get the most damage out of AA situation without Ultra taken in the equation.
Oni has the best invincibility, and Cammy has the best active frames.
Sakura and Cammy have the best normals to anti air.
Dudley gets more than Makoto or Juri. AA LP DP or F+HP or Ducking Upper can easily lead to 400+ dmg thanks to his crazy juggles.
Oh yeah, forgot about Dudley. But anti airing with those can be kinda iffy in comparison to Juri’s jMP or Makoto Fukiage.
Most Dudley use his back MP cody looking thing for consistency.
Since Edition Select might actually be getting an online mode, someone should do a edition select matchup chart with every version of every character just for shits and giggles.
Vanilla = 25
Super = 35
AE = 39
AE2012 = 39
USF4 = 44
That’s 182 characters.
A 182x182 table lolXD
OMG and if they add in a new version for USF4 patched? That’s another 44! 222
on the topic of AA
chun have a couple of blind spots but she can use every button she has to AA thing is you have to practice. It doesnt help that some AA are shit dmg while others are pretty damn good. Divekicks are a problem granted but is not like every character has one.
cr.mp, super is 400dmg as an AA
cr.mk, cr.lk xx ex legs 186-218
df.lk, u2 405dmg
and from there you have to use specific AA like cl.mp against dudley´s j.hk or far fierce against everything juri does (even divekick) same goes for cammy far fierce and far mk. Actually the only divekick that is a problem is rufus divekick, not even yun is that complicated to AA as he has restriction and is kinda slower than rufus divekick. When talking about divekicks the real problem is that those move can beat reversal Ex sbk for free on wake up. Actually if lets say yun use his divekick poorly i can just focus absorb it and either punish him or gain momentum so is not that FREE to have a divekick against chun IMO.
fun fact chun has one of the most far reaching AA in the game: far hk is almost fullscreen AA against big bodies
His excellent anti-air game is one of the main reasons I switched to him after I figured out that Honda was dog shit in SF4. I don’t like how command grabs function in this engine (they’re unsafe mixups), but I like Zangief because he can swat things out of the air that give other characters trouble and he doesn’t have to blow meter to do it. Couple that with his solid normals and you have a character that can actually succeed at playing traditional Street Fighter in an engine that actively discourages it.
As far as lariat trades, they’re usually in Zangief’s favor because they do more damage than most air normals. His natural hit point advantage also factors into the equation when it comes to trades in general.
Dhalsim is my other main and he’s definitely in the same boat as Zangief in that he can’t convert his anti-air (and footsies) options into big damage. He’s also like Zangief in that he wins by playing traditional Street Fighter in an engine that doesn’t respect that style of play. Despite that, I think people underrate him because they aren’t familiar with his nuances. He has options to deal with almost everything, but they’re often 30 or 40 damage options that don’t lead into anything. YHC-Mochi, Filipino Champ and others have shown that he can overcome on-paper bad matchups with absolutely perfect play. Other characters don’t have that luxury.
He also has interesting air to air normal with j.mp, j.hk and nj.hp which can used in certain anti air situations…
I have really different parameters for judging antiairs. To me having a lot of options is bad since they’re more than likely situational, I’d rather have a herp derp button like some cr.hps. Plus damage means a lot, because antiairing for 70-80 damage is barely a deterrent when I get 400+ damage if you fuck up once.
That’s sf4. The game where air normals do more than anti air specials.
I often say you can see he used to be top tier because he has outs to nearly everything, only now it’s threading the needle and finding the one option and one timing that will get you out of a bind instead of relying on the options themselves being all that strong. They may be narrow and difficult options, but they’re still options.
Other than a couple of ST throws which had no whiff animation, there has never been a fighting game to my knowledge where command throws WEREN’T an unsafe mixup. That’s not just SF4 that’s FGs in general. As for “overcoming” bad matchups with perfect play that isn’t overcoming the bad matchup that is playing better than your opponent. If you need to play perfectly with your anti airs, wake up, and zoning to win and the opponent only has to put in half as much effort via holding up forward for 90% of the match until you inevitably make a mistake that is still a terrible matchup even if you WIN the match.
Fchamp wins this by playing nearly perfectly while Justin almost pulls out a win with pretty sloppy play (especially for him). Not that Justin didn’t make some smart choices and great reads but he was allowed to do so much more crappy decisions like just throwing out EX Messiahs near full screen and holding up forward all day because he knew that if Fchamp made one mistake he could capitalize and Justin had a whole roll of quarters to keep plugging into the slot machine until FChamp made that mistake and Justin hit the jackpot since Sim wasn’t exactly deterring him.
Winning an awful matchup with perfect play still is an awful matchup.
Sims unique strengths with his pokes does certainly make it easier to win bad matchups against opponents who don’t have experience against him though.
The rub is that Dhalsim has a complete toolbox, unlike many other characters. All he lacks is a GTFO reversal, which is obviously a weakness against divekick characters like Rufus who break the basic rules of Street Fighter, but he isn’t alone in suffering against terribly designed divekick/mixup characters.
I think he also has a deadspot against divekicks in general.
I use his fj. hk alot against people who like to jump in alot but using fj.hk is risky and does whiff if you don’t time it right. I get alot of mileage off his nj.hp as well it adds up if you land it off peopme whiffing grabs. Yet nj.hp has its weaknesses against moves that go under and behind you or on small char’s it may whiff. fj.mp leads to big damage if your mid screen you can even lead up with a medium palm after they hit wall depends on character though.
General consensus seems to be Oni, Sakura, Cammy, Gief, and Hugo have best overall AA game?