lol, OK. with hands -14 on block (makoto ex hayate for freee) no get off me move without meter, 55 and 60 damage on your best pokes, super 250 damage and lowest in the game, 900 health in a game RFCs allow 400-500 damage off easy hit confirms and knowing your jump in is nerfed and your best footsie combo does 76 damage and fadc does 235 damage you will know he’s bad.
what the heck just pick evil Ryu.
oddly enough I haven’t fought a single gen online lol. I knew he was decent if not better just one pro rocked him though. Did xian drop him? I would of with how the games feeling already.
no Xian still rocking the old man. watch SEA2014 if you want to see him. expect to see alot of rolls and ultra 2. I sure hope he has found a way to cope with the nerfs at high level
People bring up super 250 and then ignore: Free juggle into anything brings that damage up easily over 400 without spending ultra if you do up kicks after. Gen doing crMP - Super - HK Gekiro = 427. Fei doing crMK - Super = 450. Gen has the option to spend his ultra to bring that damage up to 621 with U2 or an even 600 if he uses U1.
No get off me move without meter? See: Rufus, Deejay, Guy, Sakura, ect ect
Gen has great pokes that are just pokes admittedly doesn’t lead to anything.
Just used a GFWL version of SF4 and modded crMP and hands to 100% match USF4 version. As long as you hit at about where Gen’s thumb is on crMP he is + on block. It just means you need to space your shit a little differently and lost a small amount of range. From that position you get 108-124 damage from crMP - Hands.
You are literally TRYING to take the worst possible scenarios and portraying them as “the only scenarios”. I mean, if Cody does crLK - LP Criminal Upper at max range not only will the LP Criminal upper whiff even if crLK hits but mid screen only the first 2 of the tornado hits have to be blocked vs a bunch of the cast (sometimes NONE of them hit if you do crMP - LP CU) that puts up him upwards of -15 or -20 or more. However if he uses it CORRECTLY now in USF4 it’s only -4F that is extremely difficult (or impossible) to punish by a lot of the cast. Blanka does farLP - electricity it whiffs if not spaced correctly. Juri (a now top tier) does crMK or crMP fuhajin store from anywhere NEAR max range the store whiffs and she is at least -10. So Juri players know they need to do it a little bit deeper or risk it being unsafe.
Yes, Gen’s footsies damage dropped, yes he is definitively MUCH worse. But bottom 10? As bad as Deejay/Dhalsim/ect? I guess time will tell.
Hmm… lets see
CrMP super ultra does 600 you say, tell me how many times in a match have you see that ever done? outside a crumple or a clear punish? NO ONE ever uses that for a hit confirm and at no what you get from crMP hands super ultra is 510+ (not up to 520) on a wiff punish and on crouching opponents (God help you if the first hit of hands wiff and the third one gets blocked)
You call Rufus, yeah give Gen a dive kick, Deejay? I would gladly take a move that is invincible till airborne, light up kicks is totally invincible to first frame, Dhalsim? give me a teleport, any kind of teleport anyday. Equivalent is giving gen invincible oga to the wall on reversal without any follow up, that will be godlike.
Please which great pokes are those, if solo pokes were everything then Vega and Dhalsim and Bison will be god tier.
On SSF4 Gen crMP hands, the hands NEVER hit more than twice on a crouching opponent, once in most cases (the reason Xian started to fadc on the first hit, a very difficult tech) so I dont get your 108 damage since hands do 16 damage for each hit, so 60+16+16 is 92 at BEST.
I am not trying to take the worst possible scenarios, I am pointing out what happens MOST TIMES when you play Gen or when gen is played. point out one scenario I have mentioned that you have not seen multiple times in a match.
I am just pointing it out as it is
I wish Elena wasn’t so low, and I’m not talking about her hurtbox. Rolento must be the worst character ever, that people can’t deal with. People can’t punish them for some reason.
Tier list looks solid, I’m still seeing the same characters, plus Evil Ryu. There weren’t many Seths and I don’t miss him anyway.
I still dont get the logic behind Gen, Oni and Sakuras nerfs while they buff Ibuki and Viper. It makes literally no sense.
@Eternal What you seem to forget is that Gen always was an ambitious crossup character. The problem is that not only did his footsies nerfed but so did his knockdown game (gekiro), his crossup potential (DWU), his focus attack (fucked up range) and his gimmicky combos (super into ultra). They basically nerfed every single aspect of him for what? Some frame buffs to Robbenball. This is impossible to justify. I mean, he might not be bottom 10 after all, else people wouldnt get him to top 5 in the japanese arcade rankings (which doesnt mean that much I know) but he certainly is off way worse for no good reason and we all know what people though of him in AE.
Gen = Crying is easier than learning the match up. Wong Tou Tou has adapted, haven’t seen Xian yet.
I think you meant “Ambiguous” not “Ambitious”
As I said, Gen is legitimately MUCH worse, far worse than he should be when you see how little many top 10 chars were nerfed. I don’t think he is going to be in the bottom 1/4th of the cast but he is probably not going to be in the upper 1/2 either which is a huge drop for him. If he DOES end up in the upper 1/2 of the cast it’ll be pretty close to the cut off point.
Also, Sakura I’ve said is for all intents, the same. Her nerfs are quite minor and she got a couple of legitimately helpful changes (Shooken buff, EX Tatsu hitbox buffs, buffed far MP, far HP Special cancel). I don’t think she is moving from her AE2012 spot at all. The only thing she lost was her knockdown game got slightly weaker, and if you recall often times ChrisG just goes for her fireball setups. I’m sure those can be adjusted for DWU.
Lastly, A TON of the logic behind changes makes no sense in this. They requested player feedback but they seemed to completely randomly decide when to listen or what to listen to. I suspect the methodology was something along the lines of picking requests out of a hat. But that would still have probably resulted in more changes being consistent since so many HEAVILY requested things for characters that were 100% reasonable were completely ignored and never even made it to location testing phase.
The Shouken buff isn’t really a useful buff; the one that tended to drop was EX Shouken, not HP, and it didn’t get touched. The Back Throw and Far HP are the only real buffs, and DWU definitely hurts her more than it helps (throw setups mainly), and the jf.hp nerf really sucks. So I’d say she comes out a less worse for wear and has to play a lot smarter now, but I don’t really see her moving on the tier list too much. I mean, it’s not like many people repped her at high levels in 2012 and she was still thought of well, so I’m doubtful that’ll change
Shouoken got all versions changed not just HP. All of them had the hitbox on the first 2F active increased from 0.3 wide to 0.35 wide. Final change list even says so
http://www.capcom-unity.com/combofiend/blog/2014/05/22/usfiv-final-character-change-list
Not quite what I’m saying; the thing with Shouoken is that it didn’t really have an issue with dropping outside of the EX… and the EX still drops
Ibuki doesn’t require a vortex, just a modified joy stick so can plink the back/select button…she still is weak compared to Akuma. Whoever buffed Akuma’s St. MK was WRONG!!! Akuma has been top 5 and for real # 1 since launch. Ibuki got some cool stuff for real her 3 frame cr. lp means she can start with a Cr. LK very easily as adds another frame. The target combos into J. HK does good damage if care to ignore the modded controller for loops. Akuma is #1 by far like always though but ibuki can compete. Cammy, I don’t get why she is so highly rated and I ONLY played Cammy till dive kick height was nerfed…she only got nerfs and the real issue is she is unsafe so when anything misses she takes a ton of damage…her vortex is much worse with the worse dive kick frames just given…no over head and junk…makes no sense to rate her high. Nobody played Cammy at today’s tourny.
today and more so in the future the aggressor will have two versions of mix ups and unblockables…the only thing removed is the unsafe option selects. Kunai Vortex still works when it worked and there are so many escapes and punishes it should never work.
I watched Tokido nail a couple 1 frame link punishes today so he probably modded his controller like Ibuki players to make the light punch plinkable…it helps many of the cast tbh…cammy spiral arrow cancel links and esp punishes like DP FADC punish.
I’m still at a loss for Juri but her and rose are tricky till they get rushed down.
was never enough data…only gen player I fought was Yeb…ppl didn’t play him. Are a few characters like that the wild card. IRL they get a major boost for that because many can’t handle them. Gen was always solid…idk abt recent nerfs because didn’t check. Elf’s gd bomb is insane…a few of those and I am dead…so I have to learn to counter a toon that 1 in 1000 play. Online Tony was landing them and he didn’t need it as elf never gets played…same concept…i don’t get the match up and even most pros w/o a friend who mains the low tier will not get the match up so random characters always get an advantage.
Or Dan is a pretty safe rush down and can give a ton of issues to many of the cast…maybe lack of experience as is probably not Dan being top tier.,tbh Dan, the joke character, is probably the easiest to hit 3k pp + with… 4.5+pp is abt tourny level…there is a correlation as tourney players do play online around the world.
Does still drop if she tries to punish Honda’s headbutt on block?
Have you tried OS forward dash/jump?
…Wanna trade?
The HP shouken would sometimes drop on stuff like counterhit low forward xx shouken or when you’d catch weird extended hurtboxes. I mean it’s definitely a rare occurrence, but it happens.
The system mechanics buffs don’t seem to favor her that much but A) she can end combos in soft knockdowns and mixup off of them fine B) you can react to delay wakeup C) dp fadc is not a tool that you can use to bully her anymore to the same extent so her meh defense got a bit of an improvement D) she can delay wakeup herself to have to deal with less shit
what if a an existing character had a plus on block ultra that did 400ish grey damage and 450 or so stun?
character was not hakan, dan, deejay or sim
could that character possibly be bottom 10?
Gen is definetly not bottom 10. But I realy wish they would’ve kept the arcade gen. He didnt look op, but hella fucking cool with a bunch of new stuff and getting rid off cheap stuff. He’s not bad. But he sure is more booring than the arcade version Gen.
Poison is definitely the most balanced of the new characters, and probably has the best chance of being mid to high-mid. She has a ton of highly viable anti-air options. Her cl. HK hits SO HIGH and has a fast enough start-up to twitch react close jump-ins. Cl. HP moves her away from cross-ups.
Her fireballs are great for frame trap pressure close range and the recovery means characters cannot jump over if she cancels a medium into them. If she scores some advantage, HP fireball can multiply it mid-screen and create a lot of traps in the corner. She can combo from fireball to fireball in the corner, without using EX, so her fireball as a pressure tool is pretty safe for her.
Even though her DP sucks (her invincible hit-box is like a cr. lk height), it still has invincibility on command so it has to have some decent application down the line even if it is a last minute reaction to a jump-in or fireball trap. She has conversion options on trade. At least with EX she is not extremely weak against dive kicks. Over-all she has good pressure for pushing people into the corner and does decent enough damage on hit-confirms.
She is a lot like the character a lot of Chuns have been asking for, except her footsies abilities are way worse in exchange for better zoning. Her mix-ups are not that great, since she is always going to be at -1 or more without meter and most of her specials put you up close if they are not a fireball.
She has a ton of tools that don’t seem to add up to much right now, but I think it will at least give her an even spread of decent matchups.
Is his name Genken? The Liger of the SF Kingdom.
Well, who is bottom 10 to begin with… would an Ultra like that lift them out of the bottom? I don’t think an Ultra like that alone would make a difference unless it had something else special about it.