No I wouldn’t even put this on the front page of this thread. Oni is not more well rounded than Ryu…
Dee Jay is sure as hell not well rounded. I also doubt Makoto is a higher tier character than Cammy.
I don’t think Ultrasdavid was using the well-rounded axis.
Besides, rating “well roundedness” is pretty suspect anyway.
I think he was using the well-rounded axis, that’s why people like grapplers are on the left and shotos are generally on the right.
I like UltraDavid’s list a lot. More than Alioune’s for sure.
No offence to the knowledgeable people involved but it’s way too early for lists. You have to give it at least a few months. I’ve hardly even witnessed any players purposely using either different wake up timings or red focus to extend damage output, I’m also personally not seeing a lot people punish FADC despite it being one of the most widely known changes. I’d also highly doubt most people are even taking other character buffs/nerfs into account. I know myself I have no clue how Gen or “insert character” have changed and what I should be looking out for (apart from the obvious glance at what got better). I’m just trying to incorporate my own character changes into my game plan at the minute.
You’re right. It’s too early for lists. Let’s shut this thread down for 3 months? 6 months? You seem to be knowledgeable in when an appropriate time to make a tier list is.
Or… you know. We can actually discuss these things like normal people.
while offline is the way to go there are only 3 places in the entire world that is true…tokyo, new york, LA. I never got the elitist mentality, they usually suck at games and IRL. There are usualy only 5 people in the planet at anything that can make a statement from the pulpit. bah MMOs, ARGPs need to group with “friends” whatever that means, elitism and then I watch the top players who play the most as those games are time played = gear and they are horrible. Also, there are many players I have seen online that would destroy most other players…I watched them do it in Tournaments in NY or LA…places with a scene.
Also you are new so I won’t bore you with how many random ultras, dragon punches, suppers…and dropped combos have happened in semi finals and top 8 of evo. Justin Wong was throwing out ultra whenever he could and Diago Was Dragon Punching randomly whenever he could in top 8 of Evo before. You are not better players then them unless you tier pick like Infiltration then go win and become a pro.
what?
Never before has a Billy Madison quote been so appropriate.
You deserve it.
No harm in discussing things, I just don’t think anyone is qualified to put 44 characters , 5 new, with new game mechanics into a list for debate one week after release, I mean they can but it’s as legit as a 7 buck note.
Considering Alioune has Hakan bottom and Ultra David has Hakan near the top, I’d say that shows the considerable bias players have for their own characters, either for or against. We’re not talking a few spots here, that’s from Morning Myst bay to fucking Cosmic Elevator in terms of scope. I’m pretty happy to comment on my own characters strengths, but a full list I wouldn’t have a clue, not even close.
I think Hakan’s placement has more to do with the lack of representation Hakan has at tournaments, especially in europe (I can’t think of any euro Hakans at all. I mean I’m sure there are some but I don’t know of any). I think Alioune probably has only faced a couple of good hakans ever. Plus, let’s be honest, almost no one is fully opened up Hakan. The character needs someone like Xian to come in and show people that he is as strong as some people think but most don’t.
Even some of the best Hakans fall into gimmicks at times or concentrate on one aspect of his gameplan. Nobody has come out and put the full package together yet.
Does he have problems? Sure. But he also forces you to play his way as long as he has oil, and forcing the opponent to adapt to your toolset even if they know how to fight it they have to fight it on your terms is one of the key signs of a top tier character or one with potential for it. You can go into the Dan matchup and just autopilot and watch for throws. He doesn’t force you to really do anything out of the norm for most matchups he just plays however the opponent wants to play, even if he gets you in the corner it’s no different than fighting your way out vs most other characters. You can go into the Blanka matchup and as long as you know the gimmicks ahead of time there is no worry and he has to adapt to your tools (unless you play a zoner or Thawk in which case his tools are actually working and you have to fight both the opponent and the character with more than just memorization of setups.
Hakan has the blanka aspect with his uncrouchables where it’s just a gimmick you need to learn to beat. However he has the top tier FADNC stuff that actually is strong and forces you to play footsies and zoning completely differently against him.
Then correct me…
Random ultras
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh1fzwJeaEI
How many psychic/random dragon punches?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92LKuApzFlU
like I said…combo drops and random ultra/dp/supper (was chun li evo not linked) happen at any level. I’m unsure of your issues with my statement but stupid people keep breeding so i don’t care.
I am not as good as Alione…I faced him a few times over the years and got destroyed by amazing play…one is a dedicated game player who is top 3 or so Europe and the other is a lawyer…use good judgement.
Random supper!
If it was me I wouldn’t put him as worst in game (but like I said I couldn’t make a list) because I think even though he’s laden with gimmics, those gimmics do work, especially under oil. Being able to react to fireballs full screen is nothing to scoff at. On the other hand though with the DWU he seems to lose a bunch of set ups. I think he’s a character that if you know that match up (which I do) it’s not as bad as it first seems, he’s a lot of smoke and mirrors but regardless his tricks are a lot more powerful than some of the other “gimmicky” characters.
The thing with putting Hakan bottom is that it’s making the statement that almost all of other characters can strategically out play him, I don’t think that’s the case. Gambles or not, it’s still part of the match up. He’s an infinitely better character than say Dhalsim in my opinion. It’s not even close.
Sometimes it seems like if you know nothing about a character, they must be bottom tier. The new characters are facing that same fate at the minute.
Important is that you can give reasonings, why character X(Or in this case:Hakan) is supposedly good or bad. Something I have never seen, when people put Hakan as low tier in AE2012 and USF4.
Oh btw cool that we have some Hakan talk here.
Back in the day, I have absolutely destroyed top names of tourney players with gimmicks and parlor tricks…not many people have seen it and I could win a match or two. Alione I remember and this was SF4 launch so way back…he was playing Sagat and I was playing cammy before she was strong…he was able to counter everything. Frame traps with priority, was a lesson for me as I got the rush down>shoto>grapler meta. Anyways…I could kill many top players with whatever gimmicks I had for the first game…but after that they would adapt and could take it. Are low tier characters like El F who I can’t handle and most players can’t handle but because the top players can…the top players dictate the tier list.
I don’t know Hakan at all…most don’t so imo he should get an advantage there. The graplers destroy most of the cast but because of zoners they are considered weak. When I say destroy is like 4/6+ matchup in grapler favor vs most rushdowns but many will get taken out due to stron zoning. rock paper xx
Everyone’s talking shit about Dhalsim, but then again I see yhc mochi and noriyasu murdering other jap top players, I see Arturo and FChamp placing at tournaments etc.
I mean, he ain’t good, but there are far far worse characters in this game.
@finaticd It’s not what you meant that was stupid. It was the fact that that post literally made no sense. Like I’m not even sure it was English.
So Dan is top tier because beat Daigo?
he mentions tourney placings and numerous matches against top players. you post an online match.
yes, i see the correlation