LOL I knew it that match would be posted. Its also old. Arturo is only winning because he used the dragonballs to be a kid again. YOUNG ART!
I have never seen any use hakan aside, infiltration to counter pick. Never seen anyone at all use dan aside from ultra david in casual. Maybe Dan is top tier. Iyo was the best of the best Sim and swapped to Ibuki. IDK if he plays still but maybe he switched because sim is sooo strong as most gamers stay away from over powered characters…just kidding. Sim didn’t get buffed much and his 10-0 matchup vs Hugo got nerfed.
I guess people figure that a character with quite a few hard counters and obvious weaknesses must be near the bottom. Good players can still make bad characters shine, it doesn’t mean they are strong characters. Character specialists/loyalist are a different kettle of fish. Bonchan practically put Sagat in a top 10 spot on his own if you follow the internetz.
Characters like Hakan, I just ignore discussion. Its just like Oni. The only terribad I can agree with is Dee Jay.
Alioune is the only one who rates Yang so high, hes the only one out of the tier lists who use him so I take his word. Juri also.
I think I prefered Akuma vortex, the matches drag out so much now.
Wait, how is Vega so high on that list?
Sim has 4-5 hard counters and a few obvious weaknesses but he also has obvious strenghts. There are character specialists for nearly every damn character in this game, but this didn’t save a good 20-30% of the cast from not placing since super dropped.
Sim is definitely a polarizing characters but I can see quite a few characters (probably 10 or more) that I consider worse than him…or maybe I just fucking hate playing vs Sim because I lack the patience, whatever.
Grind that match out brah. Youll learn to be patient eventually. I used to lose to Sim free, then I got sick of losing.
In japan we been saying Juri is top 10 character in 2012, which is why it was pretty funny when juri mains saw combofiend talk about how she pretty mid tier character and needs help, Juri mains thought she was going to get nerfed as soon as ultra was announced. Kyoku, 666 other yang mains think hes top tier. Dogura thinks dictator is really strong ultra and pretty good in 2012 though i think dictator players will not agree and consider him a bad character similar to ken players lol.
[quote=“Hitenryu, post:367, topic:169227”]
She is still strong but will be free win on wake up…wait until rush downs figure out the wake up game in ultra. The tier list per Alione atm has rush downs on top but there is no answer yet to wake up…option selects and unblockables are not working. Soon rush downs will have unblockable for regular and another for delayed for a 50/50 in rush down favor…so while rush down is high on the list it will stay that way.
Juri mostly got nerfed and is now free on wake up so they were correct…I was looking for a strong zoner to combat graplers and juri failed this iteration/edition. Dictator/vega got a huge buff if they can do combos. Mp link.
Wat?
._.
How did she “mostly get nerfed”?
Nerfs:
clsMK no longer airborne on 1F lost 1F airborne frames towards the end as well. <- minor nerf
Counter now takes white health damage on absorb <- minor nerf with a side effect buff as now it builds her ultra bar when absorbing
Regular dive kicks can no longer be done from back jump <- mid level nerf. Still has EX which was reworked to be MUCH MUCH better than before.
FSE Lost 2F invincibility <- inconsequential
EX Pinwheel now 1F more negative on block and pulls opponents in <- large nerf but offset by a large buff. Pulling opponents in now means it also hits from farther out where previously it would only get 1 or 2 hits. Also it is now fully invincible through first active frame and did not lose any invincibility types like Cody’s EX Criminal Upper (lost 9F throw invincibility, still vulnerable on 1st active frame to strikes/projectiles so it trades. Rose’s EX Spiral lost 11F throw invincibility gained 2F more strike/projectile invincibility to last through 1st active.)
Meanwhile she got a ton of extremely useful buffs
farMP special cancelable <- HUGE for her, lets her move forward, has a good hitbox and does 80 damage. Lets her pressure much longer with Fuhajin stores which are only -1F on block but previously she had to cancel crMP or crMK which often times the fuhajin store would whiff.
close LP hitbox reaches down to hit crouching opponents now (previously only hit a couple, usually whiffed) <- another big buff as her sLP is her only normal that lets her combo to her crHP
far LK 1F faster <- Ok buff, just a nice far reaching special cancelable 4F punish option but nothing super game changing.
EX Anti air fireball now does 20% more damage <-helpful, plus she can combo into it if she is so inclined.
EX Middle fireball now hits crouching <- huge. This lets her throw EX fireballs in neutral without giving up her LK Fireball charge, also her EX Middle fireball has 2F faster recovery so she is +7F on block after it.
EX Dive kicks reworked and are much better now <- big buff as it ups her mobility and makes this a viable tool for pressure and mixups where previously the risks were too high.
U2 hitbox widened <- helpful as she can now combo into it even easier with Fireballs
FSE normals fixed to match non-FSE versions (except for the newly buffed far LK/LP) <- Helpful buff to make FSE even better pressure wise as a lot of her normals were buffed but never fixed for FSE mode like her clsMP becoming 3F startup.
EX Pinwheel now fully invincible through first active frame, vacuum effect on hit/block <- now she has a legit, if lacking, reversal.
Almost every buff she got was extremely helpful at all times instead of situational or gimmicky like some characters buffs (Blanka Rainbow Roll +2F blockstun, Zangief close LK special cancelable) and the nerfs she got were mostly small or manageable by utilizing her new buffs or other tools she has.
I think yang is MAD good in this game. Far st.mp cancel buff is one of the best buffs in the game in my opinion.
- st.lk cancel for a whiff punisher. The guy is loaded with tools. I thought he was pretty underrated in AE2012 as it was anyway but his changes are up there with the best. Same thing happened in old AE though since Yun is so fucking auto pilot he’s considered better. Yang just has to be played with a bit more savvy.
I think his ground game is insane now due to the walkspeed and st.mp buff, and he still has a decent divekick!!
I’ve had Juri in my top 10 in AE2012 too. Yang, my opinions change a lot, I just don’t think he’s as bad as most people make him to be. I thought Bison was ass in 2012, but better in Ultra, still don’t think he’s winning a tournament though.
Ken is a funny one. Ryu is bad, and Ken is much worse. He has a slow fireball, lackluster mixups and so much slower than Ryu… Then you put an above average Ken in there and a train wreck happens.
I find the Twins fun, then I run into Gief. Most people complain about Hawk, but I hate Gief. I’d rather play Bison/Guile, than that.
Well, I think so heh. But not by much.
As for using the well roundedness, yeah I was! And yeah I think Oni is really well rounded. He has good space control, good buttons, good mixups, good damage, as good wakeup as almost anyone… I don’t really know what he’s missing. And DeeJay is pretty well rounded, he’s just not that great at the many options he has. Has space control but it’s not great, has mixups but they’re not great, has footsies but they’re not great, etc. As for Hakan, that character is so good! He was already good in AE2012 but did have a few problems that were all addressed in USF4.
I still expect for nobody good to pick him up in the near future though because, I don’t really know, he’s ugly maybe? His good stuff isn’t day 2 obvious? I honestly don’t know anymore but whatever it is seems very strong heh.
Anyway, for sure it’s too early to make a definitive tier list, this is just how I think things are right now. Some characters I expect will end up higher or lower than I have listed here, but my goal wasn’t to play fortune teller, just to say how I think the game currently is.
@UltraDavid Any insignt on why’d your opinion on Elena change so drastically from WNF?
Ken has a scrub Xbox live stigma attached to him. The US players will never think he’s a top 20 character because of this as well. The Japanese on the other hand ranked Ken as a Top 12 character in AE2012. Mago seems to think Ken is a top 10 character.
It is too early to tell considering how many changes he got compared to the other shotos. He doesn’t have any 6.5-3.5 or 3.5-6.5 match ups for sure though.
What character has more 8-2 and 7-3 losing MU’s than Sim? Not including the new characters. They need to be developed more.
8-2: Makoto, Abel, Hakan
7-3: Ibuki, Yun, Yang, Rufus, Viper, Fuerte, Seth, Adon, Cammy
What other character has that many bad matches? How is he not statistically the worst?
yeah, she’s just kind of a deceptively weak character. seeing her early i was like, this character has such good walk speed, and i bet those buttons are great for antiair and space control and mixups, and check out this corner combo, and check out this safe looking high/low mixup that goes into ultra either way, etc. except her buttons are not as good as they look, the good antiair button is a 2-hitting move that just hits once as antiair so it does peanuts damage, her midscreen damage is usually minor, and the ex mallet smash and ex lynx are both unsafe on block. too bad, i feel like she has so many potential tools, they’re just not individually good enough.
Ryu is bad? What… and ken has lack luster mixups?
Juri probably not going to win tournaments if the only scene you follow is the american tournament because none of the juri players are lucky to be sponsored to travel. Amiyu would have shown Gens strength long before Xian switched to Gen in AE, he just wasnt lucky enough to travel, he was dominating osaka players for a long time. I don’t see Yang winning american tournaments also none of the top Yang players can travel.
I think he meant to put quotes to say the kind of stuff that comes out of your average Ken player’s mouth