Those two things are always mutually exclusive in many respects.
I don’t think it is too early to make projections at least. I think Elena isn’t good in this game.
I 100% agree. I still play her but damn she’s ridiculously bad. Why play Elena when you can play Rose or Chun? I also have no idea why they changed half the things from her arcade release.
We thought Gen and Evil Ryu were bad for years.
14 days isn’t nearly enough time to know if a character is good or bad.
I think most players in general aren’t creative enough to evaluate how good or bad a character is going to be at first glance. Really its a separate skill entirely from actually being good at the game so there’s only a tiny percentage of players who can actually do it.
There’s numerous examples of even the highest calibre of player being off base about first glance character strength. The only 2 top players I can think of who have been consistent with their predictions are Mago and Alioune.
Even Daigo has been way off. Remember his list of characters who “couldn’t be competitive”.
I think for most people they look at raw numbers and tend to ignore the scope of how a character would play at the highest level. Damage, reversals, ease of use and a singular dominant tool tend to stand out more.
So if a character doesn’t have tools that are apparently good most times those characters get cast off as weak until some dedicated people sort things out.
So when a group of mid level at best players determine that a character is bad after 2 weeks there’s plenty of reason to be skeptical
That is true but there is also the opposite as well. Some characters just don’t have the tools or is nerfed too much. I give Seth for example. No way in hell he will be top tier.
And it is early.
I believe Elena doesn’t have it. Months down the road and I believe she still won’t have it but that is my opinion. Nothing wrong with that. Better than having a bunch of OP characters. We have some weaker new characters which is fine.
Always listen to Alioune, that has not failed yet.
We? I thought Evil Ryu was good, but I thought Akuma outclassed him.
Obviously in the case of the new characters it’s hard to see where they’ll end up exactly (outside of decapre), but it’s not hard to have a general prediction of where they’ll end up.
But it’s how Elena gets her damage along with how disadvantageous they are. Also people drop out of her moves frequently enough to be a hindrance (I have a replay where a point blank cr.lp whiffed vs a standing Ibuki ._.), however if they do update and fix all of that then she’d be a great character.
Here’s Alioune’s tier list.
thats a solid week 2 list. he’s got guy and dudley too low tho IMO. they arent that much better, but i think theyre at least in the group of characters directly above them
Deejay better than Hakan is nuts.
i like his top 12 or so though
I like his list, specially where it puts the characters horizontally.
Although… Viper is more well rounded than Evil Ryu ? oO
I mean, she’s good, but I would never call her well rounded lol.
I feel like they placed seth too high cause he isn’t close to top 10
Alioune has always been good at finding cheap stuff but I pretty regularly disagree with his views on mid tiers or lower. He’s never been able to explain to me why he consistently puts Cody as high as he often does. I think this is the lowest I’ve ever seen him placed by Alioune. There is simply no way Cody is overall better than Guy/Dudley. The ONLY advantage Cody has over those two characters is a shitty fireball. Otherwise they simply do what Cody does but equal or better in terms of corner carry/whiff punishes/frame traps/mixups. That’s not to say Cody is awful just those two are simply better at his gameplan in most matchups, only a couple of MUs would I say Cody does better than Dudley/Guy (Honda/Gief/Hawk being about it.)
Hakan is far too low. Fuerte I dunno, I feel he should be up one more tier. I think his footsies are way better as is his raw damage and wake up. Plus his mixup damage went up. I dunno if he is GOOD but I think he is being underrated because of being so non-traditional and still having legit faults. Even with his better footsies he still is a bit lacking in good far reaching pokes he can cancel or good whiff punish normals, he has better pokes than before though.
Edit: Also sakura is too low, at WORST she should be switched with Balrog.
Yeah; Dudley’s really low for a character that relies on meaties rather than setups and got nothing but buffs. Sakura is worse than 2012, but below Ryu/Balrog? I don’t think so. I can see DWU screwing with Guy, but I really think that Gouken should be up a tier along with Yang being far too high up.
Sakura isn’t even worse, she is basically the same. 2F less blockstun on EX Tatsu but better hitboxes on it across the board (plus being +2F means doing far LK after EX Tatsu is a really good frame trap at 1F + makes most reversals whiff if she doesn’t do it.), slightly increased hurtbox on FJ HP (still trades with almost any anti air it doesn’t beat clean, still a 5F startup 5F active 100damage heavy crossup that doesn’t even need special setups/spacing to crossup. Better clsMP for combos, far HP gives her new combos and is actually viable off of her level 3 fireball charge setups as well as just as a general poke as she can cancel to fireball or LK Tatsu for pressure. Far MP reaches farther. Back throw distance change might allow setups now where previously it did not. Way better hitbox on DP.
DWU doesn’t really hurt her too much if you just concentrate on her way better ground game + maximizing her amazingly high damage + stun combos. Plus she has plenty of time to react to DWU technical message after a throw or sweep. She still can do dirty resets thanks to EX Tatsu being free juggle. And DWU helps her lacking wakeup options.
honestly, other than her losing FJ HP as a ALWAYS get in button and losing her tatsu escape in the corner she is as good or BETTER in my opinion.
Dudley doesn’t even need meaties. He simply can frame trap longer / better than most and has the threat of a high low game in neutral as well as above average throw damage to make his frame traps have a threat behind them. In addition he has incredible corner carry + whiff punish damage + whiff punish options + safe chip (LP MGB). The only problem dudley had before USF4 was he couldn’t whiff punish far reaching lows as many of his hitboxes didn’t reach low enough to the ground, and that some of his attacks didn’t quite work as intended (Extra pushback on sHK counterhit, rose required FADC, some normals whiffed due to reeling animations)
Seth and Dictator are up there! Woo hoo! Bison is my main and Seth is my secondary. I’m glad they are solid characters. I’m going to smash people with them now. 
yeah seth is solid but man does he require alot higher consistency with everything.
Yeah, that’s true. When you drop in consistency, your lose ratio increases dramatically since he is so fragile.
the only way I lose consistently is if I don’t feel a good vibe. Seriously though, akuma is way better then I imagined still I might as well main him. seth is really strong its just his style overall was nerfed with how he can’t make stuns happen as easily as he should. yeah he can still stun but there’s no way someone good will usually get stunned unless there clearly outplayed. Seth has to make decisions crazy fast considering all his options need to be in use for him to be considered a threat at all.
I’m the same with the vibe thing. Yeah, you have to make fast decisions with him to stay ahead while playing against other characters, if you don’t, you are dead fast.