to echo myself from february
YOU CAN REACT TO DELAYED WAKEUP AND NOT DO THE OS. then you land and just do a meaty + grounded os, or you do a setup that lets you react to the dwu before jumping. or you play ibuki, or blahalbhalbhalhblahblahlahlb
I have literally not done an os on a delayed wakeup more than 1-2 times because i just watch for the technical message, it’s not rocket science.
Sure but who cares about meaty grounded OS’s? There is no dangerous mixup from a meaty. Eliminating safe jump OS setups also eliminates the dangerous mixup. No cross up, no empty jump low, no strong way to open up the opponent.
You realize that meaty wake up pressure isn’t any different than neutral game pressure. Attack with some normals with some OS behind. Great you can do that anytime, you don’t need a knockdown. Plus characters with “poor defense” have ways of dealing with that. Focus absorb backdash, block a couple of normals backdash. Just block.
DWU basically has devolved everything into a form of neutral game all the time for most of the cast.
Vs rolento I figure something like this + a reactionary Anti air/Air to air would kill all his options
Jump in OS back dash for regular wake up
Jump in OS jab Chain OS Backdash for DWU [the OS jab is meaty and he has no invincible shit so you can safley chain a second light + sweep]
The second you see him flash yellow react to the distance he is at and how far he flies off the wall and punish/gain ground.
Its impossible to practice solo though. Use dat online training mode!!
I dont know anyone that can help me make a vid so this is the best I got 
I cant show reactionary responses post wall dive short and far distance.
Edit: Terrible place to put this gonna re-post it somewhere else and hope people experiment and prove me right.
I’ll quote myself on an old post of mine and say:
Haha…
what?
If you’re not scared when, I dunno, Makoto Dudley Abel or Cammy, do a ground meaty on you, you really need to find better players.
You’re totally missing the point. Those characters do that all the time. There is no difference between the neutral game for them and this KD scenario. For most of the cast they will rely on meaty frame trap/throw game which is generally nullified by a well timed backdash.
With a bunch of characters the DWU technical message is reactable before the setup is done. With Cammy’s backthrow farMK the technical appears before the farMK has recovered. hence, creating an anti-dwu setup can allow OSes just as much as any other KD.
Sure. Yun and Rufus aren’t affected by DWU either. DWU will force most characters to just play the neutral game 99% of the time even when they score a KD unless they have dive kicks or very specific setups that can get around DWU.
You’re bad at fighting games
Only if you’re terrified of using meaties on someone I think. The basic stuff remains as effective as it was before in that way.
What part of: You can react to the technical message and create a new setup for a ton of the cast don’t you get?
There are a ton of characters who have easy to implement 11F frame kills. Then there is the fact some characters don’t need to do an 11F frame kill specifically and can just use an entirely different setup because their original setup has so long for frame killing. The ones who really suffer are the ones who can’t frame kill and need to be jumping immediately for their normal setup. The only ones I’ve found that are an issue are the ones where the character needs to jump right away and can’t normally frame kill, like Ryu’s sweep or Cody’s back throw. Even then you can safely empty jump - land - meaty + OS with a bunch of characters or just block if you suspect a reversal.
I know I already said this.
Pretty sure I did get it in the part that you quoted me. I will bold it since you seemed to have missed it.
Sure. Yun and Rufus aren’t affected by DWU either. DWU will force most characters to just play the neutral game 99% of the time even when they score a KD unless they have dive kicks or very specific setups that can get around DWU
I never said you couldn’t get around DWU. Howvever it does impact alot of the game, most of it when you sweep an opponent. There are alot of throws with enough frame advantage that you can choose to do something else but the fact remain that you cannot prevent DWU from being effective in many areas of the game.
We will see if there is a plethora of setups that make DWU a non factor or whatever. I predict the amount of setups will be limited to specific scenarios and won’t allow you to cover the previous standard setups.
i have a decapre setup where if i see delay wakeup, I chain an extra cr.lk(which ends up being the correct amount of frames to kill) then i still get my unblockable.
It’s really not a big deal for a lot of characters.
It sucks for my old main blanka as he doesn’t have the ability to change his jump arc or chain normals, but he’s garbage and the sf4 system mechanics hate him anyways.
I’m still a setup monster in USF4, and it’s not like every character relies on hard kd.
It’s NOT “very specific setups” it’s often “The same setup but you throw in an 11F jab”
Saying “Very specific setups” implies you can’t do a non-DWU wakeup setup and you aren’t reacting to the technical message and are instead planning for DWU from the start. You CAN do a completely different setup ON REACTION.However A LOT of characters can simply do the SAME setup modified with 1 extra light. The problem is only an issue with characters who don’t have time to modify their original setup or their setups don’t put them in a position they can 11F kill. Like I can’t 11F kill with Cody’s EX Ruffian Kick setups because his 11F kill is farLP. However I haven’t explored if the technical message appears early enough for me to simply do something else besides a 2nd dash. Maybe I have enough time for dash - sHK - NJ or something like that. I dunno, nobody is doing the work to find out.
However a character like Cammy? Back throw - sMK (during recovery of sMK watch for “technical to appear”) doesn’t appear? - Jump LK unblockable. Does appear? crLP - JumpLK unblockable. Same setup added in a light after the technical appears.
Had DWU gone the way it originally was going to (no technical, the effect doesn’t tell you they did a DWU until after using a subtle shadow effect during their get up animation and you need to figure out their pattern and mindset, then yeah I’d be on your side. Most characters without a dive kick would be fucked and have no setups or OS game. I said so myself back during the location tests, I was a “the sky is falling” member that thought OS game would be dead. However it DIDN’T turn out that way, and I was wrong. So I adapted.
Look I told you exactly what I meant, no need to look for implications.
We will see if there is a plethora of setups that make DWU a non factor or whatever. I predict the amount of setups will be limited to specific scenarios and won’t allow you to cover the previous standard setups.
Bookmark this post or whatever. We will find out soon enough if DWU is defeated by hitting jab when you see a technical message after any hard knockdown.
I don’t need to argue anything, it will become self evident in time.
Stuff with Cammy. Able to react in the air, do JHP. If not do cannon strike:
Sakura DWU and non-dwu unblockable
Sweep - crLK x1 = unblockable vs regular rise
sweep - crLK x2 = unblockable vs dwu
This one is actually difficult to do. Cody unblockable vs Sakura DWU is walk forward a couple of frames - jab - jump MK. However the regular is walk forward - jump MK. He has no time to really confirm whether or not to go for the jab or jump. However it IS possible, just very difficult as the original setup was never precise to begin with. The way Harrison is doing it in that video wouldn’t work to cover both DWU and regular wakeup though, if you look he is doing jab THEN walk forward. The technical message doesn’t even appear until the same moment that Cody already has to start his jab so it has to be walk forward THEN jab if you want a DWU setup that you have the option of not doing a jab if they don’t DWU.
Really, the biggest issue will be characters who can alter their jump arc will have the easiest time (shocking!). There will likely be better Akuma setups and Makoto setups and Cammy Setups than Sakura or Cody or Fei setups in the future because the jump arc alter setups will allow you to do it even without waiting for the technical before leaving the ground and still create deadly mixups. These characters will likely be the ones who are able to make whole new regular AND anti DWU setups rather than simply modified regular setups that beat DWU. However even with the characters who can’t it’s shown that simply adding the right jab or short or whatever into your setup can fix the problem. After that, the issue is simply training, training, training until you learn to recognize the “technical” message as early as possible. That is probably the hardest part. You need to get your reactions setup to look for the technical and react properly. Likely you’ll see a lot of the same setup being used because people will want to use twitch reactions and limit the conscious thought slowdown. Make it so that they just do it purely on instinct “See technical: hit button.” THAT will be the hard part.
If you look though, almost every anti DWU setup is just a variation on the standard setup for normal rise. So that is why I’m saying your argument that “the setups will be limited to specific scenarios and wont let you cover previous standard setups” is wrong. It’s often just a variation on an old setup. I bring up the most known cammy setup again: Back throw - farMK - JumpLK is an unblockable vs a ton of the cast. Back throw - farMK - crLP - jumpLK is an unblockable vs a ton of the cast if they DWU and provides the exact same scenario as the normal unblockable just 11F later. The tough part is recognizing the technical message during the farMK and then inputting the crLP.
tl dr; learn your fucking setups scrub
Not a big fan of DWU, but I can still do some nice stuff, after reacting to the technical message, which isn´t even that hard(Hell it even appears during your frame kill phase). Even if you can´t get the same setup due to DWU, then you can still do some grounded mixups(It´s good to have command grabs lol). I guess Akuma is an exception to the SF world.
Gootecks: The amount of meat flying through the air.
Oliver: … and BJ supporting him.
West Coast Warzone 4.
Thaiger Uppercut streaming right now. Gamerbee, Xian, Mago, Bonchan and Gackt are in attendance. http://www.twitch.tv/tgucfgc